Lorax7 Scots Pine #1 progression

[Lorax7]

Nursery stock I got a few years ago and transplanted into a training pot. Started an air layer this spring using moist sphagnum. Checked it this fall and there seems to be a little callus forming but no roots. Saw a post on Bnut that said Ryan Neil uses pure akadama with a top dressing of sphagnum, so I decided to give that a try when I repacked the girdled area. Going to leave it on for at least another full growing season. Hoping to see some roots by then, but I know pines are notoriously hard to layer. Will keep at it until either the layer grows roots or dies.
Tc

 

[Divide_by_zero]

I wish you and your experiment the very best. As you've already stated, pines do not air layer very often (I've tried several times over the past 25 years or so with no success) but I'm always hoping to find someone to prove me wrong. Who I can then learn their secret from.

There is an older limber pine I am still greatly tempted to buy and if I could find someone who has been successful with layering or cuttings it might just convince me to drop $450 - 500 CDN on it if I kid myself into hoping I might be able to get more than one tree off the top of it.

Please keep us posted.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I wish you and your experiment the very best. As you've already stated, pines do not air layer very often (I've tried several times over the past 25 years or so with no success) but I'm always hoping to find someone to prove me wrong. Who I can then learn their secret from.

There is an older limber pine I am still greatly tempted to buy and if I could find someone who has been successful with layering or cuttings it might just convince me to drop $450 - 500 CDN on it if I kid myself into hoping I might be able to get more than one tree off the top of it.

Please keep us posted.

Personally.... If tree is good/interesting subject for bonsai may be worth $450 anyway. However should always attempt to bargain for better price($250-300)beginning with how long have you had this tree? If trunk straight or under 3" would not consider personally for that money.

 

[Lorax7]

Checked on the air layer today. No roots, although there is quite a lot of swelling right above the girdle. I scraped the girdle again, made sharp cuts on the upper side of the girdle, reapplied rooting hormone (or maybe applied it for the first time - I might have forgotten it the first time around). Repacked the layer with wet akadama and a sphagnum top dressing.

I also put some wire on a few of the branches below the layer to set them on a downward angle from the trunk.

 

[A. Gorilla]

This won't work.

 

[Lorax7]

This won't work.

It’s an experiment. My understanding is that air layering pines is possible in some cases, but the probability is quite low. I’m trying it anyway for fun.

Actually, I’ve already learned something quite useful as a byproduct of this experiment: by attempting to layer a pine, you can stimulate back budding immediately below the layer. If you just chopped instead at the same location, you would not get this to occur because there wouldn’t be any sap continuing to flow through the area without a branch above.

 

[A. Gorilla]

It...won't...work.

 

[Lorax7]

It...won't...work.

There are at least some anecdotal reports of Scots Pine being air layered successfully:

Pinus Sylvestris propagation

The "Misho" article in the latest issue of Bonsai Focus sparks these new inquiries. I found a Scots pine next to my house and it is covered in pine cones. About half of them are open and the other half are closed. I would like to collect some of these cones for seed. When should I do...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Usually it works in young vigorous growth, in a old mature trunk probably very difficult in Pines to root http://muranakabonsainursery.blogspot.com/2012/04/japanese-black-pine-air-layers.html http://muranakabonsainursery.blogspot.com/2015/01/japanese-black-pine-air-layer-removal.html

 

[Lorax7]

Usually it works in young vigorous growth, in a old mature trunk probably very difficult in Pines to root http://muranakabonsainursery.blogspot.com/2012/04/japanese-black-pine-air-layers.html http://muranakabonsainursery.blogspot.com/2015/01/japanese-black-pine-air-layer-removal.html

I’m not expecting a cakewalk. I assumed it would be a challenge. I am trying anyway. It’s not really costing me anything to try. The part I’m attempting to layer was going to come off anyway.

 

[PeaceLoveBonsai]

One thing I wished I had understood earlier in my bonsai journey was the relationship between time, money, effort & learning.

I wasted so much time, money & effort to yield small amounts of learning. All because I believed in “experimenting”.

My unsolicited recommendation: Put this tree out of its misery, plant it in the ground, and find a piece of material worthy of your precious time, money & effort.

 

[Lorax7]

One thing I wished I had understood earlier in my bonsai journey was the relationship between time, money, effort & learning.

I wasted so much time, money & effort to yield small amounts of learning. All because I believed in “experimenting”.

My unsolicited recommendation: Put this tree out of its misery, plant it in the ground, and find a piece of material worthy of your precious time, money & effort.

This is the practice pine. It’s never going to be great material, but it’s worth having to try stuff out on it so I can make mistakes here and not on my better trees. That said, I actually have a plan to transform it into something not too bad and the idea for that came out of this air layering experiment. The impressive amount of back budding that I got below the layer suggests to me a way to get branches down low on the trunk where there currently are none.

 

[Backwardsvg]

all about learning, never would have known or known to that extent without trying! I think its a cool looking tree so far. Following for the future

 

[Lorax7]

Applying what I learned from the previous experiment: this time propagation is not my intention. I’m hoping to stimulate backbudding down low on the tree where there currently are no branches. The air layer is there simply to maintain upward sap flow while disrupting hormone transport.