I have several American Beach that do not have branches down low on the trunks and thought I would try to notch some dormant buds to see if I can make that happen. Also want to try that on some conifers. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks
Looking for information on "Notching"
- Thread starter August44
- Start date
hemmy
Omono
Oh cool! Like this? I’d also love to hear if that works on older wood to disrupt auxin flow to the buds.
A quicker method is “notching,” in which a ⅛ inch round (rattail) file is pulled in a single stroke across the branch above the bud, through the bark only. In addition to being quicker, notching can be done in the dormant season, so that a bud can be forced to grow in early spring.
A quicker method is “notching,” in which a ⅛ inch round (rattail) file is pulled in a single stroke across the branch above the bud, through the bark only. In addition to being quicker, notching can be done in the dormant season, so that a bud can be forced to grow in early spring.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
There is a surprising amount of information on this technique on the net that even a Luddite like me can find.
Yes now through early summer best time to heal the notch in the trunk.
Yes I have already read that. There is some differences of opinion in how and what to do in several areas and no one mentioned said to much about different trees. A lot of what I read was about fruit trees. I was hoping that someone on here has experienced it and had first hand knowledge. Makes things a little easier sometimes.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
I have done successfully on pine, Douglas fir and oak 1/2" to 3/4" thick. I FIRST wired tree to hold bend after making the cut. Then make cut usually one blade (hacksaw medium teeth or Pocket Boy) thick per individual cut 2 or 3 cuts can be made side by side for a single bend so that bark on opposite side is not split by too sharp a single cut bend. Then bend so cut surfaces meet. If needed can add guy wire to aid in holding together until healed. DO NOT WIRE TREE AFTER CUTTING as this will twist the tree and endanger integrity of cambium on opposite side and mismatch surfaces. Cover thoroughly with PASTE type cut paste so as not to get into wound. I have left these wired for at least a full year including two growing seasons or even for a third growing season to make sure of healing join. All were successful.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
That's definitely a useful bonsai technique but I don't think it is what @August44 had in mind with this thread. Th notching he's asking for info is to interrupt flow of auxins so that dormant buds can sprout on a branch or on the trunk.I have done successfully on pine, Douglas fir and oak. I FIRST wired tree to hold bend after making the cut. Then make cut usually one blade (hacksaw medium teeth or Pocket Boy) thick per individual cut 2 or 3 cuts can be made side by side for a single bend so that bark on opposite side is not split by too sharp a single cut bend. Then bend so cut surfaces meet. If needed can add guy wire to aid in holding together until healed. DO NOT WIRE TREE AFTER CUTTING as this will twist the tree and endanger integrity of cambium on opposite side and mismatch surfaces. Cover thoroughly with PASTE type cut paste so as not to get into wound. I have left these wired for at least a full year including two growing seasons or even for a third growing season to make sure of healing join. All were successful.
I've notched to get buds activated a couple of times but way back. Just a single knife cut - grafting knife or similar rather than a wide notch so that it heals quick and no scarring. I think I did have some success but not every bud started. Can't remember timing. Would guess early Spring just before leaves open??
Theory is the notch stops auxin coming down from the growing tips. Auxin coming from the growing tips suppress bud growth. Cutting through the sap stream above a bud will stop auxin from reaching said bud and the bud should activate.
The technique is relatively easy and not damaging to the tree so you should just have a go. If the buds fail to grow the cut will just heal up and disappear so no harm done.
I did, with several types of rooting gels and powders and 6 different trees done multiple times each. Absolutely no success. I have no idea why the failure
maybe this? i recently started playing with rooting powder and it may contain auxins
very good point. The idea is to stop the auxins, so...
I better do some studying on this. Thanks for input.
From google.......in conclusion, while most commercially available rooting powders and gels rely on synthetic auxins, honey, cinnamon, and diluted apple cider vinegar are among the readily available options that do not contain auxins but may aid in the rooting process due to their other beneficial properties. Willow water is a natural alternative that contains naturally occurring auxins.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Did a trunk notch for a bend in mid Apr on Cal Black Oak and got 2 uninvited sprouts just below the cut. Used only cut paste to cover the cut.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I'm confused. Were you trying to root something? If you are just cutting a notch in order to graft a dormant bud, don't use any kind of rooting anything. Note how in your PDF it is called "bud grafting". If you use rooting hormone to try to close a wound, in the best case it will do nothing, while in the worst case it will burn the wound site and prevent the graft from ever succeeding. I think when you use the term "notching" it can mean something else (cutting a notch in a branch or trunk in order to create dramatic bends) and it confuses people.
I do not have any experience with bud grafting aside from reading a lot of articles about it. I have seen it used a lot with stone fruits (cherries, peaches, etc), and in fact read a couple of interesting articles about using the method to graft dozens of different cultivars on a single tree.
My sense is that bud grafting works well with deciduous trees, while standard "live" grafts work well with tropicals (like citrus). Dormant bud grafting often happens in the fall, with the bud sprouting the following spring. Standard grafting usually happens in late spring, with the goal being for the graft to grow/heal that same season.
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99 Mile Creek
Mame
I remember reading that it's species dependent for epicormic shoots.
Elms often give off aggressive growth after being chopped. Looking it up, looks like Oak, pitch pines (after fire), willows, sycamore, eucalyptus, poplars, etc., are all species that grow epicormic shoots upon some sort of stress. I've also seen it done in a video, but I don't know where--but it was an elm.
I tried it on mine with a few light scraps to the cambium layer, and in another spot with light needle puncture, with no results (elm). I'm thinking that was much too conservative. Since they tend to grow in response to feeling the threat of 'disconnect' to the growth above, a larger score might be called for (such as a notch...) cutting through the cambium to the sapwood, maybe a half cm to create an absence of cambium.
Interesting topic. Would like to see experiences with this. I'll document my attempts, too.
Elms often give off aggressive growth after being chopped. Looking it up, looks like Oak, pitch pines (after fire), willows, sycamore, eucalyptus, poplars, etc., are all species that grow epicormic shoots upon some sort of stress. I've also seen it done in a video, but I don't know where--but it was an elm.
I tried it on mine with a few light scraps to the cambium layer, and in another spot with light needle puncture, with no results (elm). I'm thinking that was much too conservative. Since they tend to grow in response to feeling the threat of 'disconnect' to the growth above, a larger score might be called for (such as a notch...) cutting through the cambium to the sapwood, maybe a half cm to create an absence of cambium.
Interesting topic. Would like to see experiences with this. I'll document my attempts, too.
99 Mile Creek
Mame
Found the video:
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