Looking for information on "Notching"

[blackadam]

My sense is that bud grafting works well with deciduous trees, while standard "live" grafts work well with tropicals (like citrus).

Punjab industrial scale growing manual also suggest tbudding citrus

different cultivars on a single tree.

also possible with citrus

I do not have any experience with bud grafting aside from reading a lot of articles about it.

same, but looks much safer for a tree (for now looks like standard way grafts works for me in 50% :/ )

"notching" it can mean something else (cutting a notch in a branch or trunk in order to create dramatic bends)

for me it looks like same technique, different uses

Interesting topic. Would like to see experiences with this. I'll document my attempts, too.

Same, if my plants grow a bit more - for now i have bunch of seedlings
Not gonna experiment on "pet plants" anymore cuz it was like "graft and pray"


another way to force bud grow from Punjab manual

 

[99 Mile Creek]

It appears I've tried multiple times with scores but never making proper notches as shown in the video.

Photos show old scoring at several intervals along the trunk. Probably this just healed back over without disrupting any flow, not signaling to the tree to send out new growth.

I've made another attempt. I messed up at first, cutting too low, but stopped. Hope no growth comes from that area... but I made a notch at approx. 4 mm for growth in a desired area--and for the sake of science. Will post findings. I'll also attempt again in the spring if no success.

 

[August44]

I'm confused. Were you trying to root something? No, not trying to root something and not trying to graft a dormant bud. If you are just cutting a notch in order to graft a dormant bud, don't use any kind of rooting anything. Note how in your PDF it is called "bud grafting". Not sure I understand this. If you use rooting hormone to try to close a wound, in the best case it will do nothing, while in the worst case it will burn the wound site and prevent the graft from ever succeeding. I think when you use the term "notching" it can mean something else (cutting a notch in a branch or trunk in order to create dramatic bends) and it confuses people. Notching also refers to cutting a notch above a dormant node, which supposedly cuts off auxins flowing to that node and makes the node want to activate and grow a branch. The reason I am trying this is to create branches needed where there are none now. I have read that it works on both deciduous
and some conifers.
I do not have any experience with bud grafting aside from reading a lot of articles about it. I have seen it used a lot with stone fruits (cherries, peaches, etc), and in fact read a couple of interesting articles about using the method to graft dozens of different cultivars on a single tree.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/08/03/337164041/the-gift-of-graft-new-york-artists-tree-to-grow-40-kinds-of-fruit

My sense is that bud grafting works well with deciduous trees, while standard "live" grafts work well with tropicals (like citrus). Dormant bud grafting often happens in the fall, with the bud sprouting the following spring. Standard grafting usually happens in late spring, with the goal being for the graft to grow/heal that same season.

Please read 99 mile creek video posted above on the subject. Thats what I am trying to do.

 

[August44]

It appears I've tried multiple times with scores but never making proper notches as shown in the video.

Photos show old scoring at several intervals along the trunk. Probably this just healed back over without disrupting any flow, not signaling to the tree to send out new growth.

I've made another attempt. I messed up at first, cutting too low, but stopped. Hope no growth comes from that area... but I made a notch at approx. 4 mm for growth in a desired area--and for the sake of science. Will post findings. I'll also attempt again in the spring if no success.View attachment 609727View attachment 609728View attachment 609729

Just to make sure, are your notches cut below the dormant node? Also do you know what time of year is best for being successful with this? Thanks

 

[nuttiest]

Just to make sure, are your notches cut below the dormant node?

Now you are talking about a NICK, which is similar to NOTCH but intended to produce a new spur (flower shoot). NICK goes above the node to create new bud (leaf growth). If you guys are trying on old barked wood there is not so much success rate.

 

[99 Mile Creek]

Just to make sure, are your notches cut below the dormant node? Also do you know what time of year is best for being successful with this? Thanks

Honestly, I don't know how to identify the dormant bud (can they be?). I'm just hoping to encourage new growth by causing stress.

As for time of year, spring would have to be the best. If I have any growth, it will be much thinner/weaker than I'd want moving into winter...but still, it's worth a shot.

Now you are talking about a NICK, which is similar to NOTCH but intended to produce a new spur (flower shoot). NICK goes above the node to create new bud (leaf growth). If you guys are trying on old barked wood there is not so much success rate.

That's interesting...nicking it is.

Still hoping it will encourage some sort of growth. If not, the area will be used for a graft at some point.

 

[nuttiest]

Thanks for reposting that... should read NOTCH goes above the node.

 

[August44]

Thanks for reposting that... should read NOTCH goes above the node.

Let me understand this a little better than I do now with both nicking and a notching on the board. My understanding is that a notching is where one makes a notch 'above' the node to hopefully encourage the old dormant node to produce so growth, i.e., a new branch.

Nicking is making a notch 'below' the dormant node in the same fashion, but this time to try a prevent a branch growing from the node

Here are two videos that show both.

Notching demo

Nicking video
It is a pruning technique used in horticulture, including in Oregon, to inhibit or discourage the growth of a branch on a tree.
More specifically:
How it works: When you make a small cut below a bud or a branch, it hinders the flow of growth hormones (auxins) that would normally travel upwards from the roots to promote growth in that area.Purpose: Nicking is used to slow down or prevent branches from growing in unwanted directions or becoming overly large.
It's important to note the distinction between nicking and notching, another pruning technique:

• Notching involves making a small cut above a bud or branch to encourage its growth by disrupting the flow of growth-suppressing hormones that flow downwards from the apex of the plant.

Both notching and nicking are used in fruit tree training and other horticultural practices to manipulate the tree's growth and structure.
It's crucial to use sharp, clean tools and avoid cutting more than one-third of the way across the stem to ensure the tree heals properly. Notice how deep the cuts are made.

 

[nuttiest]

Hmm, I can find only one source for the spur inducing claim, most sources do say it inhibits growth of the branch. But they are talking about existing branches there. Maybe it's a two step thing, wait for the new growth, THEN cut under.

Pruning Guide — The Giving Grove

Proper pruning of fruit trees in the summer and winter ensure healthy growth and bountiful harvests. Use this helpful guide to properly prune your fruit trees.

www.givinggrove.org

Notching: By nicking vascular tissue above or below a lateral bud, you can determine whether a bud becomes a shoot or a flower. The nick should be close to the bud, about 1/8” wide, but not deep (a mere scratch - to cut the phloem just below the bark surface). It should reach halfway around the stem. To produce a shoot, notch above the dormant bud, cutting off the flow of growth hormones from terminal bud. To produce a flower, notch below the dormant bud, sending the flow of carbohydrates from the leaf to the bud instead of the rest of the tree.

 

[99 Mile Creek]

Hmm, I can find only one source for the spur inducing claim, most sources do say it inhibits growth of the branch. But they are talking about existing branches there. Maybe it's a two step thing, wait for the new growth, THEN cut under.

Pruning Guide — The Giving Grove

Proper pruning of fruit trees in the summer and winter ensure healthy growth and bountiful harvests. Use this helpful guide to properly prune your fruit trees.

www.givinggrove.org

Notching: By nicking vascular tissue above or below a lateral bud, you can determine whether a bud becomes a shoot or a flower. The nick should be close to the bud, about 1/8” wide, but not deep (a mere scratch - to cut the phloem just below the bark surface). It should reach halfway around the stem. To produce a shoot, notch above the dormant bud, cutting off the flow of growth hormones from terminal bud. To produce a flower, notch below the dormant bud, sending the flow of carbohydrates from the leaf to the bud instead of the rest of the tree.

I also thought that making a notch/nick after pruning would give more of a chance to have the tree throw the 'new growth' signals, leading to a higher success at achieving desired growth at the notch. But, having so much stimulation from all over the tree at once, might then lower the possibility of seeing growth at the desired location as well. Seems like a catch-22. At least that's what I've been mulling over.

 

[August44]

Hmm, I can find only one source for the spur inducing claim, most sources do say it inhibits growth of the branch. But they are talking about existing branches there. Where do you get that idea pls? Maybe it's a two step thing, wait for the new growth, THEN cut under.

Pruning Guide — The Giving Grove

Proper pruning of fruit trees in the summer and winter ensure healthy growth and bountiful harvests. Use this helpful guide to properly prune your fruit trees.

www.givinggrove.org

Notching: By nicking vascular tissue above or below a lateral bud, you can determine whether a bud becomes a shoot or a flower. The nick should be close to the bud, about 1/8” wide, but not deep (a mere scratch - to cut the phloem just below the bark surface). It should reach halfway around the stem. To produce a shoot, notch above the dormant bud, cutting off the flow of growth hormones from terminal bud. To produce a flower, notch below the dormant bud, sending the flow of carbohydrates from the leaf to the bud instead of the rest of the tree. Sorry, but this information does not go along with any info that I have read or the two videos above.