Late summer repotting

[leatherback]

without clarifying his position.

How often do you want him to explain it though? I am sure I have read an explanation several times. Probably in one of the maple thread.

That being said.. Why should he explain. He explains when he does, under which circumstances and that he finds it better than spring repot. Case closed. People can choose to try or ignore.

 

[leatherback]

maybe "because I said so" is good enough for you, and if it stopped there that might be fine, but @Walter Pall displays an outrageous lack of respect when he refers to our collective bonsai heritage, and the generations of research and commitment that have brought us to where we are today, with the sweeping terms "bonsai world" and "idiots". that doesn't work where i'm from.

You are so good at googling. I am sure you have found his website. And... If it works, it works. So yeah, for me the proof is aso partially in the pudding. Walter shows that it works. I have been repotting yearround and found that mid-summer past the longest day works well for me.

But if you want a short explanation as to why Walter thinks it works, why not just read it on the forum:

Repotting big maple

Please note that this is not a full on bare rooting re-pot but more of a root pruning and partial soil change... big difference between the two.

www.bonsainut.com

 

[leatherback]

you’re as bad at communication as walter is!

You know, communication is between a sender and a receiver. So if you have the problem that multiple persons do not get you mesaage, maybe you should look at yourself as the source of poor communication.

 

[Daniel son STL]

Wow. Ok, so we can't ask questions--just stare in awe of your creations?

Isn't questioning how you began your journey in bonsai?

Flatly stating you owe nobody anything is plain wrong. YOU benefitted from enormous input from others over the years. I understand your aversion to posting anything. Ive seen the idiots who called you names and questioned your basic abilities--It sucked. Move on. Everyone is not out to get you. Many just want to hear details, whys, etc.

By the way, the outright attacks (and there are none in this thread) happento ALL OF US who have been doing this for any amount of time.

Lol did you not catch the shitty attitude in Derek’s posts. Kinda seemed like a personal jab if you ask me. Why would someone be polite back, let alone engage in a discussion.

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

I'm a big fan of Walter's Bonsai videos I found on Sandev Bonsai before I became a member on this forum - I'm not sure why folks are getting out of shape at the perceived tone of his comments. Its written just as the dude talks. He's blunt and opinionated but I sure as heck want trees that look like his so I think its a small price to pay for the knowledge - and some diligent google-fu and video watching can yield answers to a lot of the questions asked that hes not answering here.

 

[Soldano666]

I just potted up a bunch of nursery juniper and repotted a couple that were due. I have better luck repotting them now as oppose to spring here in northern New England. Reason is. I have all the whips at full extension ready to pump out new roots. If I repot in the spring i tend to get weak growth, some die back, and if I'm lucky right now the tree will show.me what's alive and what could be new vigorous whips if I'd waited, summer seems best for me. @sorce told me to repot a boxwood a couple weeks ago, so I did..., Boom, still just screaming right along like I diddnt touch it.
I've also collected larch from mid August on with high success rates, so im about to repot some of those soon and see what happens, bet they don't skip a beat

 

[leatherback]

It is not about defending. It is about toning it down a notch and relax. Chill man.

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

do you realize who he is insulting? it's you and me

I can see that it is really frustrating for you man, there's lots of others that share that frustration. Sorry to see it messing with you so bad. Guess I am more of a turn the other cheek kinda guy, especially when interacting on the internet. Not worth losing sleep over.

 

[rockm]

Lol did you not catch the shitty attitude in Derek’s posts. Kinda seemed like a personal jab if you ask me. Why would someone be polite back, let alone engage in a discussion.

I saw a legitimate question at first. Anyway, even if there was "kinda" of a personal jab, others here have received far worse, yet here we are...lol

 

[sorce]

@Walter Pall is not going to get away with disparaging comments about what he views as outdated japanese methods without clarifying his position.

He won't, in some people's eyes.
Then they don't have the knowledge.

But he already does. Because knowledge is only as good as the person who holds it.

I already understand Walter's position because, while it may not be written here, it is public. But.

ONLY AS THOROUGH AS THE ONE BROWSING FOR IT.

If one needs Walter's entire opinion on the subject, find it.

I posted raw pots on Instagram. Not often finished pots. Same concept. The lazy morons will think I complete nothing.

Everyone also has the ability, as free humans, to meet Walter in person, shake his hand, and understand he has nothing to prove, and doesn't need to.

You know how hard it is to be thorough on a god damn forum reply.
How much info can be provided?

This is not a book.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Forgive me, I'm only GodDamning the Internet.

No Humans.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

And @derek7745 I like to think we, as honorary Nuts, are better than the "people of bonsai" and NOT who Walter was speaking of.

This is our choice too of course.

To be or not be a moron!

I believe we are a righteous group, and I like to believe that's why Walter shares so much here.

He doesn't need to at all. But cares to.

Thanks for that Walter.

Sorce

 

[atlarsenal]

For the record, this was not my quote! It was copied from someone else’s post.

“my issue is that some guy in south germany keeps telling people that late-summer repotting is better and is meant to replace spring repotting, even in the context of japanese maples! i don't mind that i look like a gadfly on this topic. @Walter Pall is not going to get away with disparaging comments about what he views as outdated japanese methods without clarifying his position.”

I have really got to stop clicking on this button!

 

[my nellie]

... ... i don't take any of this personally... ....

You have convinced us! Please, stop trying to convince us any more... more so seeing that you are on vacation...

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Back on the subject of summer repotting, and off the topic of personalities.

I believe I have always been careful to point out where I live and the climate I am dealing with when I advocate summer repotting. I can not comment on whether it is good for Alabama or not, I don't know that climate intimately. Summer repotting works in my relatively mild summers. I have a relatively short growing season, often with a cool spring, so some trees do not wake up adequately for spring repotting. Depending on degree of root work, I can protect trees from cold over the winter if necessary.

Trees I have successfully repotted in August.

Spruce - Colorado blue spruce, Oriental spruce. Both repotted with major root work. Both successful.

Pines - Jack pine repotted 2 nursery trees, one over 30 years in the same pot, one over 10 years in the same nursery pot. Both with major root work. Both are in either 2nd or 4th year post repotting and doing well.

JBP - cork bark varieties. I have repotted 'Kyokko Yatsubusa', 'Brocade', 'Hayabusa', 'Gan Sekki Sho', 'Ogon', and 'Taihei' in August with no problems. Generally these were moving from 1 or 2 gallon containers to bonsai pots less than 4 inches in depth. Kept as many roots as possible, but moved a lot of roots around to flatten out root balls. I've been repotting pines in August for over 20 years. I keep it to myself, because those living in warmer climates just get indignant when I try to tell them what I actually do.

Thuja occidentalis 'Hetzii Dwarf' - from 3 gallon pot to Anderson flat. Major root work in doing so. 2nd summer post repot, looking good. Will begin styling next year.

Hinoki - I move all my Hinoki's around in August.

Junipers - I always repot junipers in August. never any trouble.

Ginkgos - I did my first August repot of a ginkgo this week - so far so good.

Chaenomeles - Flowering quinces - I do repot mine in August - no problems, fewer issues than spring repotting.

Azalea - I do repot azalea in August, actually just about any time of year except middle of winter - no problems.

Other deciduous, and deciduous conifers not mentioned above - I do my maples, elms, cherry, Malus and others all in spring, not summer. Larch - have had spectacular failures repotting in August. Later winter very early spring ONLY for Larch

So I do not recommend a blanket summer repot, but for the trees above, I think summer is better than spring. IN MY CLIMATE & MICRO-CLIMATE. Your own personal results may vary.

I usually do not ''promote'' August repotting, because it may not work for people in other climates. It works for me, I do it. And now I am ''out of the closet'' about it. And if I repot, I do not hold back on doing root work. If it needs root work, it gets root work. So for the species I do August repotting, I do the appropriate root work for the level of tree development, a point to the OPs original question. I don't just fold roots under. I do all the work appropriate.

I also allow adequate recovery time. And in preparation for repotting, I will skip ''bonsai work'' and just strengthen a tree up beforehand, then give good recovery time. Much better success this way.

 

[sorce]

Sorry for that @atlarsenal .

Sorce

 

[Animron]

So ... why is late summer repotting better then early spring repotting? After reading four pages I still don't get the answer. What are the benefits of late summer vs spring repotting? What can you expect? Can you expect stronger growth next year? But what if you don't want stronger growth, like you have a "finished" bonsai and you just want to keep the shape? Is late summer repotting better no matter in what development phase your bonsai tree is? Or it's only better for very old species? Is it better no matter how often and when you prune your trees? I can go on and on ... There are so many unanswered questions ...

I've watched a video where Mauro Stemberger collects oaks (quercus robur mostly) in December with great success. After collection he puts them in a big plastic bags and keep them in green house untill spring. While Harry Harrington can swear on late summer repotting/collecting quercus robur. I collected my two quercus robur in april, using Tony's Tickle black bag technique. One oak died while other one has been growing like crazy. I mean there are so many alternatives to spring repotting/collecting ... I wouldn't dare saying one is better then others. It might be better in ONE or TWO aspects of developing your trees but i doubt that it can cover ALL aspect of developing your trees.

 

[coh]

I don't know...people have been doing most of their repotting in spring forever. I've done all my repotting in spring and have never lost a tree. So why would I repot at this time of year, especially considering all the warnings about how the weather has to be perfect, you can't cut any roots, etc etc?

The only reason I can see is if I am unable to get all the repotting done in the spring. And that indeed happened this past spring, so I have a bunch of trees that I wanted to repot but didn't get to. So what to do...wait till next spring, or risk repotting now? Not something I want to try on a tree I really like, but maybe I have some less important specimens to experiment with.

If I were to repot now, and do root work (any tree I have to repot will need some amount of root reduction), do I need to give it special protection during the winter? We have long cold winters - perhaps similar to what Walter experiences. So I wonder if he provides any extra protection for late summer repots? @Leo in N E Illinois , you say you do "appropriate" root work during late summer repottings, do you provide any additional winter protection? Would you say you've had more/the same/fewer losses on repots done this time of year versus spring?

Ultimately I think one just has to experiment and be prepared for some losses in order to fine tune any non-spring repotting, regardless of what Walter or anyone else says.

 

[Saddler]

pointing out the hypocritical nature of Walter's posts is not an "attack" - and note that that is not where the conversation began either...

did you notice that @Walter Pall 's response didn't actually clarify anything? he did, however, mention that he thinks most people in the 'bonsai world' (that's us ) are idiots

You are reading things that don’t exist. He never called you or anyone else an idiot. He called the idiots idiots.

“All my caveats are for the idiots who are around in the bonsai world.” If you want to repot an tree in 40° C weather and complain about Walters “advice” (which to me is clearly not advice) killing your tree, you are an idiot, even without his disclaimer. I can only imagine how many people have sent him angry emails because they didn’t think the process through and blindly repeated what they saw and ended up with firewood.

Nothing WP has said here isn’t more then clear enough to me and I see most, if not all of your questions here answered as well.

 

[Joe Dupre']

I found Walter's explanation for the process and the reasoning behind it to be pretty clear. It's pretty important to consider ALL of the details. .........much like his soil/fert./ watering practices. Can't just adhere to one or two......it's all or nothing. That seemed plain to me.

I like to experiment with techniques. Within the last week, or two, I've repotted 5 different varieties of trees. They were anywhere from 6 months to 2 years old. Most went into slightly smaller pots. Took them out, gently massaged the roots to remove some soil and put them back into a smaller pot. No cutting of roots or branches. None of them even blinked at the process. I find aftercare to be the most important thing........partial shade for a week or so and just a bit of water. Experimenting may lead to failure, but failure is also a learning experience.