Las Vegas...

[Cadillactaste]

It is impossible to avoid the fact that the US is stuck in a trap with gun culture. People avoid the fact that in many countries it is quite difficult to acquire a gun, never mind automatic. So people will continue to blame the individual, as they should, but avoid the true elephant in the room. Such a sad event, my heart goes out to all those touched by the violence.

Yet, was it in Paris...the cops ran from the situation because they had no gun? One can look at many scenarios...

But honestly...at a time like this...when many are grieving. To step up on a political stage...I find tactless. I don't feel he meant for this thread to go there. Yet, it seems it will. I'm backing out of this thread...don't need the different points of view when I ponder how was the gun permitted onto the property? IF anything...I see them addressing security measures which can be done. Gun checks and not permitting them in guests rooms...or at least guns of this caliper. Could have perhaps...prevented this from happening.

 

[Wilson]

Yet, was it in Paris...the cops ran from the situation because they had no gun? One can look at many scenarios...

But honestly...at a time like this...when many are grieving. To step up on a political stage...I find tactless. I don't feel he meant for this thread to go there. Yet, it seems it will. I'm backing out of this thread...don't need the different points of view when I ponder how was the gun permitted onto the property? IF anything...I see them addressing security measures which can be done. Gun checks and not permitting them in guests rooms...or at least guns of this caliper. Could have perhaps...prevented this from happening.

It isn't political for me, just common sense. Dav4 said it though, the genie can't go back in the bottle. Where else is there as much gun violence? Mogadishu, Kandahar, Baghdad? I am in no way trying to slander the US, I love you guys!

 

[coh]

To step up on a political stage...I find tactless. I don't feel he meant for this thread to go there. Yet, it seems it will.

I'm sorry, but WHAT? So what are we supposed to do, not discuss the issue when we're in a period between mass shootings, and also not discuss it in the immediate aftermath? In other words, never discuss it? Or is there a specific time window that would be appropriate in your opinion? To me, this is just another excuse to kick the can down the road...one of many.

I have no idea what the solution is. I'm sure a combination of measures will be needed, including tighter restrictions on what kinds of guns can be legally purchased and who can legally own them. Stricter pre-purchase checks, follow-up checks. Tougher penalties for anyone who possesses any kind of gun while committing a crime (even if the gun isn't used), and for anyone caught with illegal weapons. Start cutting back on the number of people in jail for stupid stuff (like getting caught with small amounts of drugs) to make room.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I know a member here who...knew ones shot. Seen it on Facebook. I guess I should have added that. I know he's asking ones not to take up a stance on guns right now. With his words on my heart...I guess I see things differently.

 

[just.wing.it]

It isn't political for me, just common sense

Likewise.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Me, too. I don't have the answers, either. Everyone whose posted so far, excluding Vance, gave an explanation/excuse for why this happened but didn't offer up any potential "fixes". All I get from that is that you all are comfortable enough on this subject and are ok with the current state of affairs.

We can’t stop evil. Evil has been happening in this world since nearly the beginning; certainly before guns existed. The best answer we have is to be and raise our kids to be good and Godly people, encourage others to do the same, and realize this world is not our final destination. Start there, where you can individually and directly make a difference.

This is truly a tragedy and I feel bad for the people who suffered and who will continue to suffer. However, no amount or form of “control” by one man imposed on another man is actually going to stop evil; that in itself is evil. A fool will trade his liberty for the promise that somebody can provide him with security.

 

[just.wing.it]

We can’t stop evil. Evil has been happening in this world since nearly the beginning; certainly before guns existed. The best answer we have is to raise our kids to be good and Godly people, encourage others to do the same, and realize this world is not our final destination. Start there, where you can individually and directly make a difference.

This is truly a tragedy and I feel bad for the people who suffered and who will continue to suffer. However, no amount or form of “control” by one man imposed on another man is actually going to stop evil; that in itself is evil. A fool will trade his liberty for the promise that somebody can provide him with security.

Amen brothah!

 

[Vance Wood]

So, it seems you're all ok with this continuing to happen, and we all know it will. Well, there you have it.

I heard the report of at least one of those guns, and yes everything he had was illegal. You can't put the worms back in the can, you know the argument about criminals and good guys and guns. However. I thought at first the gun sounded like an AK 47 but after hearing it from a closer source it sounded more like some sort of hand cranked gatling type gun. It's going to be interesting to see what they say he used. And before you ask I have been shot at by a lot of this crap, you really don't forget the sound but that one would change speed. No automatic weapon I know, outside of a hand cranked multi-barreled gun can do that.

 

[Dav4]

I heard the report of at least one of those guns, and yes everything he had was illegal. You can't put the worms back in the can, you know the argument about criminals and good guys and guns. However. I thought at first the gun sounded like an AK 47 but after hearing it from a closer source it sounded more like some sort of hand cranked gatling type gun. It's going to be interesting to see what they say he used. And before you ask I have been shot at by a lot of this crap, you really don't forget the sound but that one would change speed. No automatic weapon I know, outside of a hand cranked multi-barreled gun can do that.

Whatever it was, it was putting out multiple rounds a second from what I could tell from the noise on the video.

 

[GrimLore]

I agree.... but it's just too easy with automatic weapons.

As I stated earlier, even if they were banned they would still exist. Worst part is then only the "bad" would have them... It is possible to get a permit for Silencers these days which I have applied for. If you shoot a lot as in target they save your hearing. Will I ever acquire and distribute them to others, no. Will others? Hard to say but if there is money involved anyone can get anything legal or not as with drugs...

Grimmy

 

[coh]

As I stated earlier, even if they were banned they would still exist. Worst part is then only the "bad" would have them...
Grimmy

When was the last time a "good" citizen stopped a mass shooting with one of these weapons?

 

[GrimLore]

When was the last time a "good" citizen stopped a mass shooting with one of these weapons?

Good citizens do not carry them... Most I know carry a hand gun and to be honest they prefer to hope never to have to use it. I carry as well as many here. Full Auto is for collecting and private range, not acceptable for hunting.

How you doing Chris? Been awhile

Grimmy

 

[coh]

Good citizens do not carry them... Most I know carry a hand gun and to be honest they prefer to hope never to have to use it. I carry as well as many here. Full Auto is for collecting and private range, not acceptable for hunting.

How you doing Chris? Been awhile

Grimmy

So then, why should good citizens need to have them at all? I've never heard a really good reason for that. Usually I'll hear "they're fun to shoot" (there are plenty of other ways to have fun), or "to protect us from government tyranny" (well, if the government wants to get you, you're not going to stop them with any kind of rifle...you'll just disappear in the middle of the night or on your way to wherever).

I'm doing fine, especially when I stay out of this tea house...

 

[GrimLore]

I'm doing fine, especially when I stay out of this tea house...

lol, yeah I completely understand that my friend

So then, why should good citizens need to have them at all? I've never heard a really good reason for that. Usually I'll hear "they're fun to shoot"

I don't own full auto's anymore, gave them all to my oldest Son who has been an avid collector along with a lot of other guns. I have 5 hand guns, 1 bolt action rifle, and two shotguns. Handguns are for plinking(it is fun) and carry. Long arms for hunting. Like anything including Bonsai, shooting is a hobby, often a sport. I carry even when Fishing or Collecting as "critters" can be unnerving. Fact is I have a choice

EDIT: My Dad bought me a Lifetime NRA membership when I was 18, I don't actively participate and really have no idea what their stance is anymore. I just like having the choice.

Grimmy

 

[just.wing.it]

lol, yeah I completely understand that my friend



I don't own full auto's anymore, gave them all to my oldest Son who has been an avid collector along with a lot of other guns. I have 5 hand guns, 1 bolt action rifle, and two shotguns. Handguns are for plinking(it is fun) and carry. Long arms for hunting. Like anything including Bonsai, shooting is a hobby, often a sport. I carry even when Fishing or Collecting as "critters" can be unnerving. Fact is I have a choice

Grimmy

People used to be responsible. Back when they were properly educated...

 

[GrimLore]

People used to be responsible. Back when they were properly educated...

There used to be School's in the Buffalo New York area that had shooting ranges and safety courses... Around the same time they did not have drug counseling - Coincidence?

Grimmy

 

[Paradox]

So, it seems you're all ok with this continuing to happen, and we all know it will. Well, there you have it.

No Dave. No, I am not ok with this. I am outraged and angry and my heart is broken for those familes.

But I don't know what we can do about it. I have some ideas that might help but I don't think we will ever stop this from happening completely, sadly.

Part of the problem is that most of these bastards either kill themselves or are taken out by the police so we very rarely hear from their own mouth why they do these things.

Before I go further, I want people to know that I have at least 5 guns in my house. We have 3 shotguns, a 22 rifle and another high powered hunting rifle (forget it's state atm, it is my husband's). I come from a long line of hunters and I have hunted and shot guns I the past.

I am not pro nor anti gun.

I do believe in our right to bear arms in the US. However, I do feel that common citizens should not be allowed to own certain types of weapons or, if a collector, then certain types of ammo clips should not be allowed. All collectors should be licensed in their state and must update the state on the inventory of guns yearly as well as record the sale of any weapon to another person.

Yes, it's a paper trail that someone is going to have to track and yes it only addresses law abiding people. It won't solve the whole problem, but it might make it a little harder maybe.

We also need to do more with mental health in this country so that maybe the people that are prone to this can get identified and get the help they need before they do this.

 

[Dav4]

We can’t stop evil. Evil has been happening in this world since nearly the beginning; certainly before guns existed. The best answer we have is to be and raise our kids to be good and Godly people, encourage others to do the same, and realize this world is not our final destination. Start there, where you can individually and directly make a difference.

This is truly a tragedy and I feel bad for the people who suffered and who will continue to suffer. However, no amount or form of “control” by one man imposed on another man is actually going to stop evil; that in itself is evil. A fool will trade his liberty for the promise that somebody can provide him with security.

So then, why should good citizens need to have them at all? I've never heard a really good reason for that. Usually I'll hear "they're fun to shoot" (there are plenty of other ways to have fun), or "to protect us from government tyranny" (well, if the government wants to get you, you're not going to stop them with any kind of rifle...you'll just disappear in the middle of the night or on your way to wherever).

I'm doing fine, especially when I stay out of this tea house...

I'm a full-on supporter of your right to arm yourself for personal protection. I'm not a fool, though, and I disagree with the premise that making certain weapons harder to acquire is a trade in on my liberty. I also believe God gave us free will, and I would hope He would want us to be a little more proactive in the area of at least trying to slow evil down, if only a little bit.

 

[just.wing.it]

There used to be School's in the Buffalo New York area that had shooting ranges and safety courses... Around the same time they did not have drug counseling - Coincidence?

Grimmy

Yeah, high school gun clubs used to be common....you brought your gun to school with you books....no mass shootings then....
What happened?

 

[just.wing.it]

I'm a full-on supporter of your right to arm yourself for personal protection. I'm not a fool, though, and I disagree with the premise that making certain weapons harder to acquire is a trade in on my liberty. I also believe God gave us free will, and I would hope He would want us to be a little more proactive in the area of at least trying to slow evil down, if only a little bit.

Agreed sir, completely.
Now maybe I'm not as caught up at this moment, but as far as I know, we don't know what he used, or how he obtained it.
One thing we do know is that people who go through the proper, legal channels to obtain their guns usually aren't the ones doing the type of thing...

In the neighborhood where I grew up, ten year old walk around with loaded pistols....
I could go get an illegal firearm anywhere at any time, with zero problems.
Truth is, BVF already said all that can be said.
Raise your kids, don't let the public schools raise them, don't let the media raise them, don't let MTV raise them.
Evil is evil, it's not politics.