Kaneshin knob VS concave cutters

[QuantumSparky]

Noob question, I just ordered shears and knob cutters for my first decent quality tools. I noticed there are also concave cutters which are slightly more expensive but seem to do a similar job as the knob cutters.

My main reason for needing a tool like that is for taking off branch nubs that I had previously cut back to a half inch or so (to account for die-back). It seems like both tools are used for that purpose, and I would assume that both are capable of leaving somewhat of a concave cut against the trunk after removing a branch. Is that more or less correct?

I don't want to end up with both tools if they do similar jobs, as $70 isn't breaking the bank but I'm trying to get myself into a better financial situation and only want to purchase the "essential" tools right now. Do you think the knob cutters are fine for my needs, or should I go through the returns process and get the concave cutters instead?

What I ordered:


The alternative:

 

[PiñonJ]

If you only want to get one tool, don’t get either of those. Get the spherical concave cutters. It’s like a combination of the two. The knob cutters are a specialty tool, since you can’t really use them on existing branches (although they are useful for reducing thick tap roots).

 

[penumbra]

They perform in a similar fashion, but they are not the same. I use my concave cutters almost every day and a few times a day (I have 3 of them). I use my knob cutters a few times a year. You really need to experience concave cutters to fully understand them. They are a tool used for extreme precision that you really can't get with other tools. If I had one bonsai tool, this would be it. When I had one bonsai tool over 40 years ago, this was it.

 

[hampton]

With my minimal experience I can say spend the money on the front end. I purchased a relatively inexpensive tool set earlier in the year and have already started replacing some of the individual pieces with Yoshiaki toolage. Funnily enough next on the list are the concave cutters, I was looking at those earlier this morning.

 

[penumbra]

Quite often when I am walking about I have a pair of concave cutters in my pocket.

 

[badatusernames]

If you only want to get one tool, don’t get either of those. Get the spherical concave cutters. It’s like a combination of the two. The knob cutters are a specialty tool, since you can’t really use them on existing branches (although they are useful for reducing thick tap roots).

You know, I've been curious about spherical cutters but my understanding is that they're for things like pine with thick bark, whereas the flat concave cutters are supposed to be better for things like Japanese maple and cut more flush, if I understand. Is that accurate in your assessment?

I can't say I've felt the burning need for spherical concave cutters, but I haven't decided if I would end up using them if they were around or not. I have knob cutters already too so... seems like I'm covered

 

[penumbra]

You know, I've been curious about spherical cutters but my understanding is that they're for things like pine with thick bark, whereas the flat concave cutters are supposed to be better for things like Japanese maple and cut more flush, if I understand. Is that accurate in your assessment?

I can't say I've felt the burning need for spherical concave cutters, but I haven't decided if I would end up using them if they were around or not. I have knob cutters already too so... seems like I'm covered

That has been my thinking as well. I don't feel like I am lacking anything with the tools I have. A good pair of concave cutters are like a surgeons tools .... very precise.

 

[PiñonJ]

I've been curious about spherical cutters but my understanding is that they're for things like pine with thick bark,

I’ve never heard that. The advantage is that they give a nicely concave cut no matter what angle you hold them at. The only time I use my straight concave cutters is for larger branches (it’s a larger tool).

 

[QuantumSparky]

If you only want to get one tool, don’t get either of those. Get the spherical concave cutters. It’s like a combination of the two. The knob cutters are a specialty tool, since you can’t really use them on existing branches (although they are useful for reducing thick tap roots).

The second photo (concave) isn't spherical enough? It's hard to tell from the photo though. I just need something that'll cut off a branch and leave an indented cut so it'll heal over. Does Kaneshin make another type of concave cutter like you described?

 

[QuantumSparky]

If you only want to get one tool, don’t get either of those. Get the spherical concave cutters. It’s like a combination of the two. The knob cutters are a specialty tool, since you can’t really use them on existing branches (although they are useful for reducing thick tap roots).

What's the reasoning behind not being able to use on existing branches, just the way you'd have to hold the cutters with the branch in the way?

I always do my medium to large branch cuts in 2 stages. I'll cut the branch back to a short nub with the appropriate shears in order to get a clean cut, and then once the tree is ready I (attempt) to cut the remaining nub flush with the trunk. Obviously that's difficult and inefficient to do with shears, hence my decision to try the knob cutter. Long story short, this tool will be used to get rid of old nubs that are ready to be taken off, not full live branches. Does that change your recommendation?

It'll be a pain to send them back and then wait to get a new tool, I'm hoping the knob cutters are good enough for my intended use. I still can't find any Kaneshin spherical cutters. It's not the most important thing but I'd like to stay with this brand if possible.

EDIT: I found a pair, I just had to go to their direct sales website. Is this what you're suggesting?

 

[PiñonJ]

What's the reasoning behind not being able to use on existing branches, just the way you'd have to hold the cutters with the branch in the way?

Yes

I found a pair, I just had to go to their direct sales website. Is this what you're suggesting?

Those are the ones. If you’re pruning branches first with shears, it sounds like you’re not working on large enough trees to worry about which ones you use, and as I mentioned, the knob cutters are useful for trimming back large tap roots.

 

[Ohmy222]

If you can change the order I would buy both and ask to cancel the shears. You would have two nice tools you can grow with and you can always buy a $12 pair of scissors. Of you could just get the spherical concave cutter which is a combination of the two. I have one and it is nice but sometimes I like a cleaner cut of the regular concave cutter. If you have to pick from your post then I would go concave over knob cutter. If you can't cancel then a knob cutter can get you by until you can get the other. You can just cut the branch to a nub and then cut the nub.

 

[JudyB]

I also vote for the spherical concave cutters. After I got those, I have not used my regular ones for anything but thick branch pruning.

 

[QuantumSparky]

Looks like I'll be keeping the knobbies then and letting them carry me through until I want to drop another 70 bucks on sphericals. Maybe it won't be annoying to RMA these and I can do a swap for concaves. It all comes down to return policies. I'll be happy either way.

If you can change the order I would buy both and ask to cancel the shears. You would have two nice tools you can grow with and you can always buy a $12 pair of scissors. Of you could just get the spherical concave cutter which is a combination of the two. I have one and it is nice but sometimes I like a cleaner cut of the regular concave cutter. If you have to pick from your post then I would go concave over knob cutter. If you can't cancel then a knob cutter can get you by until you can get the other. You can just cut the branch to a nub and then cut the nub.

I hear you on the shears advice, but the kid in me really wants to finally have a nice pair of shears which make that addicting 'snip' sound. Hopefully these won't disappoint in that sense but either way I still like the idea of having proper shears.

 

[Katie0317]

Looks like I'll be keeping the knobbies then and letting them carry me through until I want to drop another 70 bucks on sphericals. Maybe it won't be annoying to RMA these and I can do a swap for concaves. It all comes down to return policies. I'll be happy either way.


I hear you on the shears advice, but the kid in me really wants to finally have a nice pair of shears which make that addicting 'snip' sound. Hopefully these won't disappoint in that sense but either way I still like the idea of having proper shears.

Have you ever used knob cutters? I thought they were mainly used for removing larger branches from the trunk, large tap roots etc.. but not for general everyday pruning.

I ordered Kaneshin concave cutters from @Jermiah at Sumo Bonsai. He's here on BN and can go through any and all questions you might have on Kaneshin tools. Spending that much on SS concave cutters was a big decision but I'm glad I made it. We needed SS because of the environment we're in but if you can work with the CS, that's a savings right there.

I'd return the knob cutters and get the concave cutters and order the knob cutters down the line but that would be my choice and the choice I made.

 

[JudyB]

I find that the knob cutters give me a rougher cut edge, I never use them on branching only on roots now that I know the difference.

 

[Jiminsauga]

I don't have spherical concave cutters, but I do own two pairs of knob cutters, 7" and 10", I use them quite often. They work well for chipping away at deadwood stubs and I like to finish off my flush branch removals with an indented gouge from the knobbers for better healing.

The 10" cutters also cut tap roots like butter, so to me they deserve the spot in my tool box.

 

[Mike Westervelt]

The knob cutters work great for making concavities in trunks after branch removal, but as others have mentioned concave cutters are way more useful on a regular basis.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

…and neither of these is for use when doing finishing cuts on azaleas. Convex or sharp chisels or something that can make a smooth, very slightly convex wound.

best
DSD sends

 

[badatusernames]

…and neither of these is for use when doing finishing cuts on azaleas. Convex or sharp chisels or something that can make a smooth, very slightly convex wound.

best
DSD sends

Wait, what do you use for azalea? Curious to see, I didn’t know this