JBP raw stock styling

[namnhi]

All,
We have quite a few JBP experts in the house so I would like to ask a few questions on their approach. I have about twenty (20) 6 or 8 year old that has many low branches that need to cut back. Their trunks are not big as they have been grown in pond basket all their life. Am not aiming for big trunks so I don't need sacrifice branches. My problem is none of them have ever been wired but I have been decandled almost all of the branches for the last couple of years. I do have plenty of branches down low that I can pick for final branches. Now is almost time for decandle again.... Now is the question... on your initial styling, do you pick your final branches first then do the decandling or do you do the decandle first then pick the final branches at a later time?
Thanks,
Namnhi

 

[Paradox]

From my understanding, now is not the time for branch selection. Late fall/winter is better for that. Decandle now and branch prune this fall.

 

[YukiShiro]

Hi ,

why do you need to cut back these branches? because cutting back and removing entire branches are two entirely different exercises. Remove branches in fall winter like Paradox said. Cutting back implies that you are not cutting off entire branches but you are cutting off a length of a branch back to an actively growing side branch, this is also done in fall winter.

first styling are usually done in fall/winter, this is when you remove branches you do not need and wire out those that you are keeping. so decandle as normal, this will leave you with the max amount of options for when you style them in fall/winter

best regards
Herman

 

[aml1014]

In spring you should needle pluck. In summer, you should decandle to distribute energy. In autumn you do shoot selection, yet again you needle pluck, and you wire. Don't forget to fertilize in autumn as this will build strength for the trees to have in spring when you need vigorous growth.

Aaron

 

[namnhi]

Thanks guys, For now I will do the decandle and hopefully have time to do the initial styling in the fall.
NN

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Now is the question... on your initial styling, do you pick your final branches first then do the decandling or do you do the decandle first then pick the final branches at a later time?

To answer the question you did ask: identity final branches first, then decandle them as appropriate to shorten internodes and needle length.

 

[YukiShiro]

He should already have the short internodes and needle length since he has been decandling every branch for the last couple of years, he is looking to do a rough first styling
and ended up asking a question about what to do during decandling...

To answer the question you did ask: identity final branches first, then decandle them as appropriate to shorten internodes and needle length.

I have been decandled almost all of the branches for the last couple of years

best regards
Herman

 

[Paradox]

I decandled my JBP this weekend. I decandled everything because I don't have sacrifice branches. I did however examine the tree during this process and think about which branches should be removed or cut back to newer branches this fall. I have some of those selected branches marked with cable ties so I don't forget them and/or can contemplate them further before fall comes.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

He should already have the short internodes and needle length since he has been decandling every branch for the last couple of years, he is looking to do a rough first styling
and ended up asking a question about what to do during decandling...
best regards
Herman

Indeed, the cart seems to be ahead of the horse, but without photos, best I can do is answer the question as posed.

 

[Adair M]

Then there's this concept:

Decandling is a technique used to refine a JBP. He stated that he did not have much of a trunk because he grew them in pond baskets.

Uh, no. The pond baskets we're not the cause of the small trunks, it's decandling every year! If you want to fatten the trunk, don't decandle. The tree only has so much energy. If it's having to use it to replace its needles twice each year, it has none available for building wood on the trunk.

So, at this point, my opinion (without seeing any pictures) is to go ahead and decandle at this time). Right after decandling is a good time to wire, if you're not doing big drastic bends.

Major pruning and styling is best done in the fall.

 

[namnhi]

Then there's this concept:

Decandling is a technique used to refine a JBP. He stated that he did not have much of a trunk because he grew them in pond baskets.

Uh, no. The pond baskets we're not the cause of the small trunks, it's decandling every year! If you want to fatten the trunk, don't decandle. The tree only has so much energy. If it's having to use it to replace its needles twice each year, it has none available for building wood on the trunk.

So, at this point, my opinion (without seeing any pictures) is to go ahead and decandle at this time). Right after decandling is a good time to wire, if you're not doing big drastic bends.

Major pruning and styling is best done in the fall.

Adair,
The reason I decandle them because I don't want big trees. Most of them will be shohin size and the trunks are around 1 to 2 inches at this time. They are definitely quite healthy which have fairly long neck on Spring growth hence I have to decandle every year to keep them in check. I have been working on keeping as much low branches as possible... My goal is to build the smallest tree possible from the stock provided. Will post pics when I have a chance... I probably will get more pointers after posting the pics.
Thanks,
NN

 

[Adair M]

Yeah, pictures make all the difference!

 

[YukiShiro]

Indeed, the cart seems to be ahead of the horse, but without photos, best I can do is answer the question as posed.

True, I also have an Idea he does not know which questions to ask yet...

 

[LanceMac10]

for pictures......It's easier for folks with experience to instruct and gives the rest of us some sort of visual reference. About the only advise I could give would be to be more than 100% sure,(if that's possible, hehe), about a branch you want to cut back or eliminate completely. De-candle but no wiring? You sound like me!!

Now give me some tree "porn" from your "studio"..........

 

[namnhi]

 

[namnhi]

Pine2

• namnhi
• Jul 6, 2016

IMG_2050[1]

• namnhi
• Jul 6, 2016

Pine1

• namnhi
• Jul 6, 2016

 

[sorce]

Damn!

Nice!

I don't think the questions made all together the greatest sense.

Kinda sounds like the horse is in the cart and the man is pulling it with a poo bag strapped to his mouth!

But with healthy ass trees like that....
It doesn't even matter!

Wait...yes it fully does!

Very very nice growing!

Sorce

 

[namnhi]

Sorce, That is just a little portion of my garden. I have about 40 tridents that are about 4 year old. About 10 Wrightia Religiosa and just bought 40 Satsuki Azaleas. I need to re-arrange me garden so I can enjoy them. Right now trees are everywhere. Pretty sad looking garden but a lot of little trees.

 

[LanceMac10]

Real nice batch of small Pines!!!!
That need some weeding!!
Oil up your tweezers!!!! Hope your "wiring hand" is strong!!
Thanks for the pictures!

 

[namnhi]

LanceMac,
Am pretty much like you... decandle but never wire a single branch. My plan for the last 5 years is to take one of them to a workshop and work on them but haven't found the time. I am having a hard time understand why we need to use the tweezers to pull the needle if we don't need the needle buds? I don't think my pines are not at the point where I need to use the tweezers yet. If I need to pull needle, I just do it using my fingers. . Much faster and efficient.
NN