Japanese Maple cuttings [From start to finish: A Guide]

Woocash said:
Hats off to you guys for your patience and cool heads. It’s astounding how often people who know nothing think they know everything.

Dunning-Kruger effect personified
View attachment 364307
Click to expand...
Hey this is a pretty cool chart! My problem is that I usually get stuck at the "average competence / I know nothing" level :)
 
Bonsai Nut said:
Hey this is a pretty cool chart! My problem is that I usually get stuck at the "average competence / I know nothing" level :)
Click to expand...
You and me both!

I only heard of this relatively recently and it went a long way to explaining a hell of a lot.
 
Hey! if nothing else I just got a bunch of great advice consolidated by the experts here at Bnut due to OPs hard-headedness! I learned about 10 things I've been doing wrong when attempting to root cuttings. thanks @leatherback and @Canada Bonsai. you guys are champs for your patience and level headedness. Though it's not a surprise as I'm sure these characteristics are also what make you successful practictioners of Bonsai. I've sure got a lot to learn!
 
Imagine having only been involved in Bonsai for *six months* and naming yourself *Bravura Bonsai* and attempting to create guides while having an outspoken distaste for teachers who’ve been doing Bonsai for 40+ years... Astounding to me the absolute disregard for the knowledge base the community of Bonsai has to be so arrogant- I for one have been so very grateful to come into Bonsai and realizing there’s a wealth of information one can never hope to achieve all of- masters will go their whole lives and not learn everything. I’m grateful that the BNut community is willing to share and give feedback at will to beginners out of their passion for the art. There’s nothing to be but humble when such people are showing such grace. It’s embarrassing to see such a lack of humility. We both have everything to learn
 
Bravura Bonsai said:
I am new here and new to bonsai. I started bonsai by collecting a mulberry seedling in September 2020 during the lockdown. Ever since then ive had a fascination with bonsai and growing trees. Now i have a huge collection incliding trident maples (http://shorturl.at/ckH17) but japanese maple cuttings escape me.
Click to expand...
Bravura Bonsai said:
These are the kind of articles online that you get. Copy paste information. No update or follow up because just like my cuttings i bet his dried up and died. This method does not work. It has not worked for me and many other people. Disregard this
Click to expand...
I find it so amusing the fact that new people to bonsai with no knowledge of horticulture (which we all now know that not everything that can be done to a full size tree applies to container trees) decide to join a forum, and start this nonsense postings. Seriously, like your 6 month experience trying to root Japanese maples in mud is going to trump decades of experience... do yourself a favor and research-read, research-read, research-read and research-read some more.
 
Bonsai Nut said:
No, I am not going to pull reference materials because they are all in moving boxes right now.
Click to expand...
Where to? I would hate moving having the material that you have! Hell, I hate moving altogether and seems like I am every 2-3 years.
 
Canada Bonsai said:
You're not in a position to be making any suggestions.

I know you are not going to take this well, but i'm going to try to help you anyways: there are way too many things you've done wrong for you to be able to identify a single variable that is causing your failures. You've skipped ahead to blaming environment (humidity), but your procedure is totally off. Starting the cuttings on the right foot (see below) is the easiest thing to control, and probably the most important. To illustrate that point, consider that when i've run out of space in my propagation house, for fun i've planted cuttings in my vegetable garden with no humidity or mist, and success rates have been acceptable. This is not something I recommend doing, but again it shows the importance of good, clean, and confident technique and procedure.

Here are some annotations to accompany the attached images:

1 - Choose your branch. Perform the 'snap test'. You want to get a new shoot that 'snaps' (as opposed to flexing/bending). The shoot should 'snap' around the middle (the tip might still flex/bend, and the base might break). I take my cuttings as soon as they start 'snapping'. This is mid-May in eastern Canada. I take my branches early in the morning, before sunrise. Normally i water my trees in the morning, but the day before I take my cuttings I water my trees around 1pm. I don't know if this makes a difference, but somebody told me it does and i have not had any reason to question it. My parent plants are fertilized heavily (at the very upper limit of what is reasonable) as of early spring. I also don't know if this makes a difference, but somebody told me it does and i have not had any reason to question it. A lot of people dream of owning 1 big parent plant from which to take cuttings forever. This is a false hope, because juvenility is an important factor. My parent plants are always 3-5 years old, and are constantly rotating. This process is also important because it also allows me to select the parent plants with the best traits generation after generation.

2 - I take 1 internode with a stem long enough to bury 3-5cm in the substrate. Some people take 2 internodes, because they like to bury 1 node in the substrate. I've done both. They both worked equally for me, so i stopped burying nodes: a node buried is a cutting lost.

3 - This is the length I take

4 - Nowadays i use a grafting knife to cut/shave the base and expose cambium. In the image I am using scissors, but i prefer a grafting blade. I make 2 back-to-back cuts, as you would for a scion graft (I'm not going to explain scion grafting to you, and please don't go around saying it is undocumented LOL. Just google it!)

5 - I remove the leaf lobes. @Bonsai Nut explained the importance of humidity above. The reason for removing leaf lobes also has to do with reducing the rate of transpiration. You want as many factors as possible on your side in this race against the clock.

6 - I use 0.8% IBA rooting hormone. I also apply liquid cut paste to the tops. Some people don't, i do. Again, you want as many factors as possible in your favour.

7 - I place the cuttings in well-rinsed and well-watered substrate. Do not water after inserting cuttings because you will wash away the hormone. After this point I am misting so frequently that I don't have to water the substrate for 3-4 weeks (more than enough time for the hormone to do its job I think). My official recommendation for substrate is 3 parts perlite, and 1 part coco fibre husk (or pine bark). Use small particles, but not dust. In reality, i use whatever substrate happens to be closest to wherever i am standing. That's a privilege you earn after doing a few thousand of these per year for consecutive years. I'd start with perlite and coco husk or bark before trying anything else.

8 - This is a picture of a set-up i used to use at home while training with my teacher at his facility. That's a $29CAD 'mini greenhouse', with a $20CAD cool-mist humidifier. I would say that that's the bare minimum if you're semi-serious about this. I added the orbit misting nozzles (which you can see in the photo), connected to a hose timer and my garden hose. I forgot how long i was misting them, but it was something like 15 seconds every 10 minutes. You can do this by hand. I usually kept the door open and was able to keep humidity about 80-99% anyways. This tent received morning sun (sunrise to 11am), and was in shade for the rest of the day. Wetting the floor beneath the tent or placing a tray of water on the floor can help if you're having a hard time keeping humidity up. Bottom heat (see @leatherback's post) can help, but it's not necessary. Having it will be another factor on your side.

9 - Here is what they can look like by July or August of the same year (2-3 months post-cutting). I repot mine. I do not recommend that you repot yours. It is much safer to leave them in the tray, and repot in late winter/early spring the following year (9-10 months later). Winter protection is critical.

10 - Here is what they can look like in November (6 months post-cutting), best case scenario. Most of them will not push new growth like this, and that's fine.

Use sterilized tools and work area. re-sterilize in between parent plants. Use 1 tray/pot per parent plant.

To repeat what i said earlier in this thread: there are many factors and variables to control. You do not need all of them to be perfect, but when you deviate success rates drop.
Click to expand...
You should make this as a .pdf with the pictures inserted and have @Bonsai Nut pin it (I don't remember if we have a pin section, I think it's resources here). I think this is one of the most clear explanations I have seen. Then again, I haven't had the time to read everything here and probably will never have time to do so.
 
Maiden69 said:
Where to? I would hate moving having the material that you have! Hell, I hate moving altogether and seems like I am every 2-3 years.
Click to expand...
I actually moved here to NC from SoCal, but because we are going to be building a new house, we haven't unboxed a lot of things - all of my bonsai books being one of them. Pandemic has delayed our plans for a year... but I have nothing to complain about! Had to bare-root almost all my trees to facilitate the move... and then all my bonsai pots didn't arrive for another three months (well after repotting season) so that the majority of my trees got a vacation last year. They never looked healthier however!
 
To reiterate, I live in South Africa, Johannesburg. My USDA zone is 9b. It reaches mid 30s C in summer where I live. I used a R120 (South African Rands) humidity dome from Builders Warehouse. A little plastic box with a removable clear lid and 2 little slidey vents. I misted my JM cuttings twice (sometimes 3 times) daily. I had ~80% success rate. I kept my little cutting box in the shade. I took my cuttings in spring and a second batch in early summer. I didn’t use garden mud, I used straight perlite. I used IBA rooting powder.
 
Canada Bonsai said:
You're not in a position to be making any suggestions.

I know you are not going to take this well, but i'm going to try to help you anyways: there are way too many things you've done wrong for you to be able to identify a single variable that is causing your failures. You've skipped ahead to blaming environment (humidity), but your procedure is totally off. Starting the cuttings on the right foot (see below) is the easiest thing to control, and probably the most important. To illustrate that point, consider that when i've run out of space in my propagation house, for fun i've planted cuttings in my vegetable garden with no humidity or mist, and success rates have been acceptable. This is not something I recommend doing, but again it shows the importance of good, clean, and confident technique and procedure.

Here are some annotations to accompany the attached images:

1 - Choose your branch. Perform the 'snap test'. You want to get a new shoot that 'snaps' (as opposed to flexing/bending). The shoot should 'snap' around the middle (the tip might still flex/bend, and the base might break). I take my cuttings as soon as they start 'snapping'. This is mid-May in eastern Canada. I take my branches early in the morning, before sunrise. Normally i water my trees in the morning, but the day before I take my cuttings I water my trees around 1pm. I don't know if this makes a difference, but somebody told me it does and i have not had any reason to question it. My parent plants are fertilized heavily (at the very upper limit of what is reasonable) as of early spring. I also don't know if this makes a difference, but somebody told me it does and i have not had any reason to question it. A lot of people dream of owning 1 big parent plant from which to take cuttings forever. This is a false hope, because juvenility is an important factor. My parent plants are always 3-5 years old, and are constantly rotating. This process is also important because it also allows me to select the parent plants with the best traits generation after generation.

2 - I take 1 internode with a stem long enough to bury 3-5cm in the substrate. Some people take 2 internodes, because they like to bury 1 node in the substrate. I've done both. They both worked equally for me, so i stopped burying nodes: a node buried is a cutting lost.

3 - This is the length I take

4 - Nowadays i use a grafting knife to cut/shave the base and expose cambium. In the image I am using scissors, but i prefer a grafting blade. I make 2 back-to-back cuts, as you would for a scion graft (I'm not going to explain scion grafting to you, and please don't go around saying it is undocumented LOL. Just google it!)

5 - I remove the leaf lobes. @Bonsai Nut explained the importance of humidity above. The reason for removing leaf lobes also has to do with reducing the rate of transpiration. You want as many factors as possible on your side in this race against the clock.

6 - I use 0.8% IBA rooting hormone. I also apply liquid cut paste to the tops. Some people don't, i do. Again, you want as many factors as possible in your favour.

7 - I place the cuttings in well-rinsed and well-watered substrate. Do not water after inserting cuttings because you will wash away the hormone. After this point I am misting so frequently that I don't have to water the substrate for 3-4 weeks (more than enough time for the hormone to do its job I think). My official recommendation for substrate is 3 parts perlite, and 1 part coco fibre husk (or pine bark). Use small particles, but not dust. In reality, i use whatever substrate happens to be closest to wherever i am standing. That's a privilege you earn after doing a few thousand of these per year for consecutive years. I'd start with perlite and coco husk or bark before trying anything else.

8 - This is a picture of a set-up i used to use at home while training with my teacher at his facility. That's a $29CAD 'mini greenhouse', with a $20CAD cool-mist humidifier. I would say that that's the bare minimum if you're semi-serious about this. I added the orbit misting nozzles (which you can see in the photo), connected to a hose timer and my garden hose. I forgot how long i was misting them, but it was something like 15 seconds every 10 minutes. You can do this by hand. I usually kept the door open and was able to keep humidity about 80-99% anyways. This tent received morning sun (sunrise to 11am), and was in shade for the rest of the day. Wetting the floor beneath the tent or placing a tray of water on the floor can help if you're having a hard time keeping humidity up. Bottom heat (see @leatherback's post) can help, but it's not necessary. Having it will be another factor on your side.

9 - Here is what they can look like by July or August of the same year (2-3 months post-cutting). I repot mine. I do not recommend that you repot yours. It is much safer to leave them in the tray, and repot in late winter/early spring the following year (9-10 months later). Winter protection is critical.

10 - Here is what they can look like in November (6 months post-cutting), best case scenario. Most of them will not push new growth like this, and that's fine.

Use sterilized tools and work area. re-sterilize in between parent plants. Use 1 tray/pot per parent plant.

To repeat what i said earlier in this thread: there are many factors and variables to control. You do not need all of them to be perfect, but when you deviate success rates drop.
Click to expand...
*drops mic and walks away whistling*
 
Maiden69 said:
You should make this as a .pdf with the pictures inserted and have @Bonsai Nut pin it (I don't remember if we have a pin section, I think it's resources here). I think this is one of the most clear explanations I have seen. Then again, I haven't had the time to read everything here and probably will never have time to do so.
Click to expand...

Thanks Maiden!

It's available here: https://www.canadabonsai.com/pages/japanese-maple-propagation

If anybody sees any gaps or unanswered questions, i'd be happy to adjust the document as needed

@Bonsai Nut is free to post it anywhere he pleases of course :) I would use the PDF instead of the post above of course, since the PDF does not have the rejoinders directed at Mr. Bravura.
 
amcoffeegirl said:
As you say a copy and paste here- a very thorough scientifically documented and published paper.
Also this-
View attachment 363710
Click to expand...
This article was also interesting! I just posted about kotohime cuttings taken in fall in another thread, and then I read this article and it explains some of the simplicity of dormant cuttings: you don't have to worry as much about transpiration because they are dormant. I sold a lot of trees last summer and have some newer ones in development - I'm planning on holding off of pruning most of them this summer and should have lots of dormant cuttings. After reading that, I think I have some ideas how to improve my success rate, such as putting the cuttings in a bag and storing them in a place that is around 50-degrees f for a few weeks to callus.
 
JonW said:
This article was also interesting! I just posted about kotohime cuttings taken in fall in another thread, and then I read this article and it explains some of the simplicity of dormant cuttings: you don't have to worry as much about transpiration because they are dormant. I sold a lot of trees last summer and have some newer ones in development - I'm planning on holding off of pruning most of them this summer and should have lots of dormant cuttings. After reading that, I think I have some ideas how to improve my success rate, such as putting the cuttings in a bag and storing them in a place that is around 50-degrees f for a few weeks to callus.
Click to expand...
I’m glad you found it informative. There can never be enough Kotohime trees. I wish you luck.
my payment will be one well rooted cutting.
:)
 
Canada Bonsai said:
You're not in a position to be making any suggestions.

I know you are not going to take this well, but i'm going to try to help you anyways: there are way too many things you've done wrong for you to be able to identify a single variable that is causing your failures. You've skipped ahead to blaming environment (humidity), but your procedure is totally off. Starting the cuttings on the right foot (see below) is the easiest thing to control, and probably the most important. To illustrate that point, consider that when i've run out of space in my propagation house, for fun i've planted cuttings in my vegetable garden with no humidity or mist, and success rates have been acceptable. This is not something I recommend doing, but again it shows the importance of good, clean, and confident technique and procedure.

Here are some annotations to accompany the attached images:

1 - Choose your branch. Perform the 'snap test'. You want to get a new shoot that 'snaps' (as opposed to flexing/bending). The shoot should 'snap' around the middle (the tip might still flex/bend, and the base might break). I take my cuttings as soon as they start 'snapping'. This is mid-May in eastern Canada. I take my branches early in the morning, before sunrise. Normally i water my trees in the morning, but the day before I take my cuttings I water my trees around 1pm. I don't know if this makes a difference, but somebody told me it does and i have not had any reason to question it. My parent plants are fertilized heavily (at the very upper limit of what is reasonable) as of early spring. I also don't know if this makes a difference, but somebody told me it does and i have not had any reason to question it. A lot of people dream of owning 1 big parent plant from which to take cuttings forever. This is a false hope, because juvenility is an important factor. My parent plants are always 3-5 years old, and are constantly rotating. This process is also important because it also allows me to select the parent plants with the best traits generation after generation.

2 - I take 1 internode with a stem long enough to bury 3-5cm in the substrate. Some people take 2 internodes, because they like to bury 1 node in the substrate. I've done both. They both worked equally for me, so i stopped burying nodes: a node buried is a cutting lost.

3 - This is the length I take

4 - Nowadays i use a grafting knife to cut/shave the base and expose cambium. In the image I am using scissors, but i prefer a grafting blade. I make 2 back-to-back cuts, as you would for a scion graft (I'm not going to explain scion grafting to you, and please don't go around saying it is undocumented LOL. Just google it!)

5 - I remove the leaf lobes. @Bonsai Nut explained the importance of humidity above. The reason for removing leaf lobes also has to do with reducing the rate of transpiration. You want as many factors as possible on your side in this race against the clock.

6 - I use 0.8% IBA rooting hormone. I also apply liquid cut paste to the tops. Some people don't, i do. Again, you want as many factors as possible in your favour.

7 - I place the cuttings in well-rinsed and well-watered substrate. Do not water after inserting cuttings because you will wash away the hormone. After this point I am misting so frequently that I don't have to water the substrate for 3-4 weeks (more than enough time for the hormone to do its job I think). My official recommendation for substrate is 3 parts perlite, and 1 part coco fibre husk (or pine bark). Use small particles, but not dust. In reality, i use whatever substrate happens to be closest to wherever i am standing. That's a privilege you earn after doing a few thousand of these per year for consecutive years. I'd start with perlite and coco husk or bark before trying anything else.

8 - This is a picture of a set-up i used to use at home while training with my teacher at his facility. That's a $29CAD 'mini greenhouse', with a $20CAD cool-mist humidifier. I would say that that's the bare minimum if you're semi-serious about this. I added the orbit misting nozzles (which you can see in the photo), connected to a hose timer and my garden hose. I forgot how long i was misting them, but it was something like 15 seconds every 10 minutes. You can do this by hand. I usually kept the door open and was able to keep humidity about 80-99% anyways. This tent received morning sun (sunrise to 11am), and was in shade for the rest of the day. Wetting the floor beneath the tent or placing a tray of water on the floor can help if you're having a hard time keeping humidity up. Bottom heat (see @leatherback's post) can help, but it's not necessary. Having it will be another factor on your side.

9 - Here is what they can look like by July or August of the same year (2-3 months post-cutting). I repot mine. I do not recommend that you repot yours. It is much safer to leave them in the tray, and repot in late winter/early spring the following year (9-10 months later). Winter protection is critical.

10 - Here is what they can look like in November (6 months post-cutting), best case scenario. Most of them will not push new growth like this, and that's fine.

Use sterilized tools and work area. re-sterilize in between parent plants. Use 1 tray/pot per parent plant.

To repeat what i said earlier in this thread: there are many factors and variables to control. You do not need all of them to be perfect, but when you deviate success rates drop.
Click to expand...
I would like to say thank you for this information. I am posting pictutes tomorrow very excited to show you what has happened. Propagating is very interesting.
 
Not
Jluke33 said:
Hey! if nothing else I just got a bunch of great advice consolidated by the experts here at Bnut due to OPs hard-headedness! I learned about 10 things I've been doing wrong when attempting to root cuttings. thanks @leatherback and @Canada Bonsai. you guys are champs for your patience and level headedness. Though it's not a surprise as I'm sure these characteristics are also what make you successful practictioners of Bonsai. I've sure got a lot to learn!
Click to expand...
Not to be 'that guy' but this was the original intention of the thread. To get propagation info on jm cuttings all in one place. The proper information. If you read this thread you will not find any of the information posted by the vetarans of this forum as easily as you may think. The information on the internet is generic and uses a one size fits all system that obviously doesnt work for everyone
 
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