Japanese black pine 911!

[Greghour]

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to the thread and only 10 months into my first attempt at a bonsai tree.

I bought a starter kit while visiting Japan last March, and have been growing my tree from seeds onward.

Quick facts:
- I live in Toronto, Canada
- the tree has been indoors for colder months, outdoors for the warmer ones
- I've been using a foam-based fertilizer every 3-4 weeks and typically water it once a week
- I've been keeping it under a florescent light bulb multiple hours a day for the last couple months
- recently tried leaving it near a slightly open balcony door in an poorly executed attempt to help simulate the winter dormancy period
- the needles have gone from healthy and green to an ill-looking brown

Looking for overall opinions and next steps on how to revive... As I'm learning as I go here!

Thank you in advance!

Greg

 

[armetisius]

Initially, change your profile so that it reflects your location.
I know it is in this message but 6 weeks down the road no
one BUT you will remember where that is. The info you get
here is fairly locale specific so for anyone to help they will need
to be reminded of where. You will notice that there are almost
bands of locales that talk a lot to each other because they are,
more or less, in the same boat.
Secondly, Oh how cute. Its a seedling in a pot. Okay you have
kept it in this long put it back under the lights. For now.
Next, DO NOT WATER ON A SCHEDULE!
Check the moisture content of your soil with a chopstick, or in
your case a bamboo toothpick, stick it in there and when you
wonder, like daily or so, pull it and feel of it. Damp--no water yet.
Then, come spring get that out of that tea ware and into something
it can grow in.Preferably the ground to get some growth/size on it.
Outdoors as soon as you can in Spring. Pines don't grow indoors.
So? Best I can do for you as I am in central Alabama, USA. But there
are tons of articles on pines in the forums. Cold? Time for reading
and learning the theory of things before you are faced with the
"time to do something and I am clueless" syndrome.
Finally, Gook luck and welcome to our special flavor of crazy.

 

[sorce]

Sho right Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[Greghour]

Thanks for the reply and tips! Will keep it under the light (is 24/7 too much - does it ever need a break?), ditch the watering schedule and will get it back outside come April.

18 hours worth of flights to get those seeds home - my tree must live!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

First of all... CONGRATULATIONS on growing a black pine from seed.

Second - as others have pointed out - that tree yearns to be outside. It doesn't need a hard winter, but it does benefit from a "dormant" period to rest. Even in Southern California, my black pines relax for about two/three months before they wake up and start pushing buds.

The needles look short? Did the tips brown and you cut them off?

Are you doing anything about humidity? Houses in winter in the north can be super-dry. Do you have a house humidifier?

 

[Greghour]

First of all... CONGRATULATIONS on growing a black pine from seed.

Second - as others have pointed out - that tree yearns to be outside. It doesn't need a hard winter, but it does benefit from a "dormant" period to rest. Even in Southern California, my black pines relax for about two/three months before they wake up and start pushing buds.

The needles look short? Did the tips brown and you cut them off?

Are you doing anything about humidity? Houses in winter in the north can be super-dry. Do you have a house humidifier?

May be difficult to tell from that picture - so checkout this one for a better sense of scale. I thought the needles were a little on the long side - which I'm told is indicative of the tree being over-watered.

The needles were trimmed maybe 3 or so months ago (the ones that were trimmed held on to their brown tips).

As for storing it outside... It's a little on the tricky side with my present situation. I'm on the top floor of my condo building (41 stories up), and the wind can get a little extreme. Thankfully I'm in the southeast corner and do not have any sort of overhang above my balcony (loads of sunshine year round). That being said, I travel for a couple weeks a month and didn't want to leave it unattended (the wine can get that excessive). Also, this has been a pretty schizophrenic winter - so I figured the temperature extremes would be too much for something that young.

As for humidity, I've been making sure to keep the dish that the pot's in filled with a little bit of water (but not enough to get soaked up through the hole in the bottom of the pot).

Thoughts?

 

[Greghour]

See picture below for better scale

 

[Bonsai Nut]

So here's part of the problem. What you have is a seedling. You are trying to treat it as a bonsai... which it is not (yet).

As a seedling, you WANT it to grow. You want it to be strong. You want it to develop strong roots. The needles are the engines of its strength. Think of them as pine solar panels. If you cut them you will weaken your tree. Cutting of needles only makes sense if you have a strong tree and you are trying to balance growth between one area (with long needles) and another area (with short needles). If the whole tree is long needles, there are specific methods you will want to use to reduce the needle length - which do not require cutting needles. You want your seedling to be strong, because strength = secondary budding. You need the buds for branches and to develop ramification. If you try to trim your seedling now it will be like a birthday candle... weaker and weaker and then it will die...

 

[Greghour]

... And just like that, I now know why the other two seedlings didn't make it :s

As for the one with a fighting chance, is it helpful to pluck the brown/dried up/shrivled needles? Or best just to let it sort itself out?

Thanks again, everyone. Very helpful stuff!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Don't "pluck" them. If they are dead they will fall off or can be brushed off with the lightest touch. If you pull them off before they are ready, the tree will not have sealed off the sap flow at the base of the needle. It is a small wound the tree will have to heal. It isn't a big deal, but the less stress you cause your seedling the better.

 

[Greghour]

Thank you again!

I'll leave it under the light and alone for the next while. Will report back any positive or negative changes that come next.

 

[Geo]

I've been using a foam-based fertilizer

And,pray tell us(or,at least,me): what is a "foam based fertilizer"?

 

[Greghour]

This was recommended to me by someone at a horticulture supply store.

 

[Geo]

@Greghour According to Amazon.com customer reviews,many people are annoyed with this product.They want their beloved drops back,which MG has seen fit to discontinue.Folks mention,inconvenience,messy application,and a nice big price gouge.To my mind,it is not appropriate for bonsai:which,to be fair,MG does not market it for..Not critical now because you have stopped fertilizing it,I hope.Just get something else for the future.
BTW,you are away an awful lot.Good luck with a solution to that one.

 

[Anthony]

Greghour,

Please get another pack of J.B.pine seeds.
You need at least 10, better 20 seedlings.
Look up small Bonsai, all the way down to 1". Term used to be Mame'
You don't have to grow large bonsai.

Plenty of sunlight, triple pane technology to retain heat. Google.

Make an aquarium type shape and put your pine/s in that.

Have fun with foam - pines need 10N 8P 6K plus micro nutrients. Miracle gro also makes a liquid plant feed, yellow bottle that comes close.
1 teaspoon to a gallon of water every 2 weeks. Should be better for you.

Now here's my challenge. See below our mini-pine now about 8 years.
[ everyone is afraid to repot - ha ha ha ]
Tropics, now the glove is thrown down, match us.
Best Wishes.
Good Day
Anthony

* You can use simple clay pots to grow your seedlings. You know the ones that are porous and cup shaped.
Home made pot, and it has grown denser since this photo.
Supposed to be repotted this year - awk puck puck [ chicken ]

 

[jeanluc83]

Welcome!

I would say that you have done very well with your endeavor so far. Starting from seed is perhaps the hardest thing for a beginner to do but also the path many take. The problem is in the beginning you don't have the knowledge or patience needed. There is just too much of an itch to do something when seedlings need to grow.

Since you are apartment bound you might want to look into tropicals. They can be placed on your balcony in the summer and inside under grow lights in the winter. It is not ideal but possible.

Since you don't have a suitable place to over winter outside you could try over wintering in the refrigerator. It sounds a little crazy but there are quit a few who have done it successfully. For now follow the advice you have been given and let it grow and regain strength. Good luck.

 

[Greghour]

Thanks for all of your feedback. You hit the nail on the head on the patience part!

Given that this is the last of the seedlings I still have from Japan, I really want to make this one work!

As you can tell from the photo, it appears to be turning more brown.

Any thoughts or suggestions? :s

 

[Potawatomi13]

"May" be too late. First instinct says did not get enough H2O and dried up. If storing in fridge beware that frost free units suck(dehydrate)moisture out of things. Still, best fortune.