Is this trident to big for bonsai since i planted it 7 years ago and just let it grow

[Benny w]

I planted a trident maple seedling at my parents ranch 6 or 7 years ago and I forgot about it. Its leaning against the pasture fence and they are cool with me chopping it and growing something worthy of being called a bonsai but as of now I need to cut it way down since its messing iontjrijrŕ⅚⁶⁶u
Its 30 feet tall, the sub trunks unfortunately have all fused together and kinda scratching my head on what would be the quickest way to making a decent big ass bonsai out of this monster....
I planted it on a tile but im pretty sure I'm going to find the roots just pushed off the tile thus not getting that trunk flare like I had intended back then. But we shall see.
This trident maple is located in the central valley of california and doing major chops is usually not recommended now since its scorched earth but this summer has been a little cooler and with the tree planted in the ground its strong. Im thinking of maybe taking her down just below the fence to make folks happy and to reconvene next spring or maybe early fall. The credit card is for frame of reference of this trees size

 

[jeremy_norbury]

We're gonna need a bigger shovel...

 

[Shibui]

Not sure a shovel is the answer here. Axe and saw will be needed to cut the roots now.

This trident maple is located in the central valley of california and doing major chops is usually not recommended now since its scorched earth but this summer has been a little cooler and with the tree planted in the ground its strong. Im thinking of maybe taking her down just below the fence to make folks happy and to reconvene next spring or maybe early fall.

Recommendation not to cut in Summer is most likely to protect the remaining tree. Chopping a big tree exposes parts that have been shaded and they are likely to get sunburnt with sudden Summer sun.
Leaves will likely turn brown but the tree should shoot new leaves in a few weeks and leaves that open in full sun are sun hardy.
Bark can also sunburn when suddenly exposed to full sun. Orchardists paint the trunks of trees that have been pruned to protect the bark until new leaves can grow.

what would be the quickest way to making a decent big ass bonsai out of this monster....

There's no quick way. The chops will be big and they will take some years to heal. You'll need to grow new trunk line, new branches and new apex. All that takes years.

First, you need to identify a new trunk line - 1 or 2 of the main stems. Remove any others and seal cuts to promote quicker healing. With many overgrown trunks there's just no viable options for attractive trunk lines. Can't see enough of this one to judge if that's the case or if there's something you might be able to use.

Just a general chop for now is a good start. Spring transplant to see what the roots are like and how much you can reduce them.

Some things to consider:

• Cutting the big roots will be tough. You'll need an axe or a saw. Saw is easier and neater.
• The tile should have stopped roots going straight down which will make it easier to dig out - no need to cut under the trunk? You may find that the roots have crushed the tile and grown down anyway? I'd still allow 2-3 hours to dig and prune this monster.
• It will be heavy. Even without soil the stump might weigh 20-30kg (45-60lb) and you will need to get it out of the hole and up onto a vehicle so I hope you are young, strong and fit or have access to lifting machinery or strong friends.
• You can reduce trident roots to stumps but if you cut roots to around 1/2 trunk thickness long on all sides that still makes a spread of probably 24" plus. You'll need a big container for it!
• Large container full of soil + tree + water will weigh a lot. Someone will need to move it at some stage.
• If you ever manage to produce a worthwhile bonsai you'll need a bloody big bonsai pot - $$$

It is possible. Maybe not sensible.
Good luck with it.

 

[leatherback]

I think @Shibui touched upon all the key elements.
Let me just add a consideration: If you do major work on this tree in late winter, before the buds swell, and then leave it in the ground without any work on the roots, you can work towards getting a massive sacrifice branch running (just one!) wich will greatly aid in the first healing of the big cuts that are needed. I would seriously consider cutting winter 25/26, growing 26, and in early fall '26 or in early spring '27 do your excavation. There it is important to read a few of Shibius threads on reducing roots on tridents.

 

[leatherback]

Some ide of what you are getting into..

Thread 'Pigletts Progress'

Mar 15, 2015

Here is my little Trident Maple for the PP challenge. The tub that it's sitting in currently is 20" in diameter, so I think that it should be eligible.

The first picture is as purchased this past fall. I've done some work on reducing the branches down to what I'll use for the framework of the tree. I even chopped off one trunk and did a bit of carving.

This will get a pot this spring when the time is right, can't wait to do that!

• JudyB
• Replies: 429
• Forum: Maples

• 

Thread 'PIGLET CHAPTER 2'

Mar 24, 2019

I purchased and picked up Judy's famous trident maple "PIGLET" last year in the fall. As the story goes, I originally wanted to buy this tree from Don a few years back. When I contacted him to pull the trigger I was disappointed to know that someone else had beaten me to the punch. About a week later I found out it was none other than Judy who bought the tree when she posted it here.

Little that I know that Piglet would eventually make its way into my garden. And so... I pick things up where Judy left them and the story continues into the next chapter. Here is Judy's original thread for...

• MACH5
• Replies: 280
• Forum: Maples

• 
• 

Ohw, and if it is too big a project for you, I am certain there are some people out there looking for a monster like that.
I assume you are on the wrong continent, else..

 

[leatherback]

2009


2024


That is in 15 years, in the hands of some people who really know what they are doing..

 

[rockm]

Before you pick up the saw. Check the root surface. That is what this boils down to. If their juice is worth the squeeze of the process of digging this up. If there isn’t any notable root spread/nebari and the root simply go down further into the ground it’s not really worth the trouble.

 

[The Barber]

Before you pick up the saw. Check the root surface. That is what this boils down to. If their juice is worth the squeeze of the process of digging this up. If there isn’t any notable root spread/nebari and the root simply go down further into the ground it’s not really worth the trouble.

I'm with rockm, remove soil till you find the nebari. You can always use the tree as a parent tree for nice sized air layers if nothing else!

 

[Davidlpf]

If it were mine, I`ll look for airlayers first

Cut it back in autumn, and let it grow for a year or two in the ground before taking it out, in order to close the big wound of the reducction

Maybe you would like to see

Good luck!

 

[Benny w]

Not sure a shovel is the answer here. Axe and saw will be needed to cut the roots now.


Recommendation not to cut in Summer is most likely to protect the remaining tree. Chopping a big tree exposes parts that have been shaded and they are likely to get sunburnt with sudden Summer sun.
Leaves will likely turn brown but the tree should shoot new leaves in a few weeks and leaves that open in full sun are sun hardy.
Bark can also sunburn when suddenly exposed to full sun. Orchardists paint the trunks of trees that have been pruned to protect the bark until new leaves can grow.


There's no quick way. The chops will be big and they will take some years to heal. You'll need to grow new trunk line, new branches and new apex. All that takes years.

First, you need to identify a new trunk line - 1 or 2 of the main stems. Remove any others and seal cuts to promote quicker healing. With many overgrown trunks there's just no viable options for attractive trunk lines. Can't see enough of this one to judge if that's the case or if there's something you might be able to use.

Just a general chop for now is a good start. Spring transplant to see what the roots are like and how much you can reduce them.

Some things to consider:

• Cutting the big roots will be tough. You'll need an axe or a saw. Saw is easier and neater.
• The tile should have stopped roots going straight down which will make it easier to dig out - no need to cut under the trunk? You may find that the roots have crushed the tile and grown down anyway? I'd still allow 2-3 hours to dig and prune this monster.
• It will be heavy. Even without soil the stump might weigh 20-30kg (45-60lb) and you will need to get it out of the hole and up onto a vehicle so I hope you are young, strong and fit or have access to lifting machinery or strong friends.
• You can reduce trident roots to stumps but if you cut roots to around 1/2 trunk thickness long on all sides that still makes a spread of probably 24" plus. You'll need a big container for it!
• Large container full of soil + tree + water will weigh a lot. Someone will need to move it at some stage.
• If you ever manage to produce a worthwhile bonsai you'll need a bloody big bonsai pot - $$$

It is possible. Maybe not sensible.
Good luck with it.

I have a huge box that I made and never used which would be perfect for this tree.I don't do Triathlon's but maybe I should start to prepare for this tri-dent.....dumb joke holy Mary mothet of... anyways im up for the challenge and you verified

If it were mine, I`ll look for airlayers first

Cut it back in autumn, and let it grow for a year or two in the ground before taking it out, in order to close the big wound of the reducction

Maybe you would like to see

Goo

Not sure a shovel is the answer here. Axe and saw will be needed to cut the roots now.


Recommendation not to cut in Summer is most likely to protect the remaining tree. Chopping a big tree exposes parts that have been shaded and they are likely to get sunburnt with sudden Summer sun.
Leaves will likely turn brown but the tree should shoot new leaves in a few weeks and leaves that open in full sun are sun hardy.
Bark can also sunburn when suddenly exposed to full sun. Orchardists paint the trunks of trees that have been pruned to protect the bark until new leaves can grow.


There's no quick way. The chops will be big and they will take some years to heal. You'll need to grow new trunk line, new branches and new apex. All that takes years.

First, you need to identify a new trunk line - 1 or 2 of the main stems. Remove any others and seal cuts to promote quicker healing. With many overgrown trunks there's just no viable options for attractive trunk lines. Can't see enough of this one to judge if that's the case or if there's something you might be able to use.

Just a general chop for now is a good start. Spring transplant to see what the roots are like and how much you can reduce them.

Some things to consider:

• Cutting the big roots will be tough. You'll need an axe or a saw. Saw is easier and neater.
• The tile should have stopped roots going straight down which will make it easier to dig out - no need to cut under the trunk? You may find that the roots have crushed the tile and grown down anyway? I'd still allow 2-3 hours to dig and prune this monster.
• It will be heavy. Even without soil the stump might weigh 20-30kg (45-60lb) and you will need to get it out of the hole and up onto a vehicle so I hope you are young, strong and fit or have access to lifting machinery or strong friends.
• You can reduce trident roots to stumps but if you cut roots to around 1/2 trunk thickness long on all sides that still makes a spread of probably 24" plus. You'll need a big container for it!
• Large container full of soil + tree + water will weigh a lot. Someone will need to move it at some stage.
• If you ever manage to produce a worthwhile bonsai you'll need a bloody big bonsai pot - $$$

It is possible. Maybe not sensible.
Good luck with it.

Thank you for the detailed reply. Unfortunately the tree needs to be reduced just so its not putting pressure on the fence. I understand that right now is one of the worst times to put stress on a tree especially in the hot desert like environment of the central valley. Im a PCA and work for a large alnond grower.....I would never recommend prunning almond trees or pretty much any tree especially in a zone 9. Will seal the cuts for sure. I appreciate your detailed response and it will be interesting to see if the roots punched thru the tile or not. I WILL show and take pictures of any work I do to this tree. Should be interesting. I have a huge grow box that I constructed a year ago and never have used it because the box itself is super heavy.

 

[oranjeaap]

Just choose the growing spot wisely and except for repotting never move it again.... problem solved.
I enjoy watching projects like this. Follow your dream!
Lot of amazing bonsai out there started with nothing but one crazy persons vision and questionable starting material. It can be done!

 

[Paradox]

@Benny w

How is it that you have been here since 2018 with no information on your profile as to where in the world you are?
Please update your profile with that info as it will help us give you the best advice for your location

As for the tree, seems kinda big to me, even bigger than Piglet.
Will be a very long project if you decide to try and collect it and if it survives the operation

 

[roberthu]

Put it on a dolly from the beginning and no, it is not too big for bonsai.

 

[zita]

picture 2 and 3:

the two trunks right side i would chop.

NOW ! or tomorrow. Dont wait, the time is perfect. The tree will have foilage left enough.

Then, late winter/early spring 26 put it into a pot. Thats it, and no, it is not to big, just right!

 

[Don Blackmond]

I planted a trident maple seedling at my parents ranch 6 or 7 years ago and I forgot about it. Its leaning against the pasture fence and they are cool with me chopping it and growing something worthy of being called a bonsai but as of now I need to cut it way down since its messing iontjrijrŕ⅚⁶⁶u
Its 30 feet tall, the sub trunks unfortunately have all fused together and kinda scratching my head on what would be the quickest way to making a decent big ass bonsai out of this monster....
I planted it on a tile but im pretty sure I'm going to find the roots just pushed off the tile thus not getting that trunk flare like I had intended back then. But we shall see.
This trident maple is located in the central valley of california and doing major chops is usually not recommended now since its scorched earth but this summer has been a little cooler and with the tree planted in the ground its strong. Im thinking of maybe taking her down just below the fence to make folks happy and to reconvene next spring or maybe early fall. The credit card is for frame of reference of this trees size

good thing you said credit card. my aged mind saw an 8-track tape.
water it heavily for a week, then fertilize heavily and water again heavily for another week. Cut it back, seal it well with putty, and water as needed to keep the soil damp. dig it in the Fall or better yet in the Spring.
prepping it, cutting it and maintaining it until you dig won't cost you much in time or money. digging it won't be that difficult if you use the right tools and just do it. once its out of the ground and you remove all the field dirt you can decide its worth and what to do next.
it's not a big deal unless you make it a big deal.

 

[zita]

GO ON !!
Do it NOW and post pictures so we can learn whether it was a good idea or not

 

[Pj86]

I recommend waiting until spring, just before the buds begin to swell. This is the ideal time to reduce the foliage, prune the roots, and fit the tree into an appropriately sized bonsai container. The tree has the most energy during this period and time in its life, allowing you to make significant progress with tasks like wound healing and root reduction.

Here’s an example using a trident maple I dug up about 2.5 years ago. A bonsai nursery owner had planted a grove of tridents at the back of their property roughly 20 years earlier. Digging mine out was a rewarding project—it took about five hours over two days since I got a late start on the first day. The last photo shows the tree nearly two years later, with most wounds nearly closed. The largest wound, around six inches in diameter, is also well on its way to healing.

I would love to see how yours ends up!

 

[rockm]

Fwiw The tree is eventually going to need a pot. A BIG EXPENSIVE pot and you will have to be able to move it if not only to even out sun exposure. It will also have to be repotted every so often. A decent ceramic pot in the size range you’d probably be looking at for this one would weigh about 50 lbs empty. Add in 15 gallons or so of soil and you’ve got 175-200 lbs of tree. Big trees come with big expenses.

 

[LeftHandLuke]

I have a huge box

That's what she said.

 

[clem]

Before you pick up the saw. Check the root surface. That is what this boils down to. If their juice is worth the squeeze of the process of digging this up. If there isn’t any notable root spread/nebari and the root simply go down further into the ground it’s not really worth the trouble.

+1
If the tapper of the base, and the nebari is poor, I don't really see the point of working it
All the interesting trees shown previously have interesting bases (with taper and promising nebari)