Is always a complete wiring mandatory?

[Zach Smith]

Only wire what needs to be wired. I have never noticed that the trees cared. I do work almost exclusively with deciduous species, so maybe the pines and junipers are touchy.

 

[bonhe]

Yes, but the question here is: do I have to wire the whole tree even if I am in need to bend just a couple of branches?

Well, I think the reasoning goes to the fact that after wiring and bending, a lot of fissures will be on the wired branches.
And they must heal somehow.

Hah, it is coincident because I just posted something like these this morning. Please look at post # 132 https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/korean-black-pine-in-training.22212/page-7#post-582338
Thụ Thoại

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance, you are morphing into Yogi Berra!

My Idol in philosophy.

 

[Vance Wood]

Here's my experience-- Japanese white pine. An old import grafted on JBP. I wired 10 or 11 of the lowest branches to move them lower; let in some light. The tree began to abandon those lower branches in early spring and currently all of the wired branches are dead. Rest of the tree is fine. Never again.

There are those who will tell you that leaving wire on a tree over winter will cause the death of the branch/tree. This seems to have validity with JBP's.

 

[Adair M]

I have seen wiring damage branches. If the process of wiring (or bending after wiring) separates the cambium from the heartwood, the branch could die.

That’s why the best time to wire is in the fall. As the tree is shutting down for the winter, it “tightens up” the bond between the new softwood and the old heartwood.

With JWP, the best time is in late August until about Thanksgiving. They’re single flush, so they finish growing out before the JBP do. Wiring at other times of the year is riskier, it’s easier to accidentally damage the tree. Especially, if you “twist” the branches.

Since we’re discussing this, Junipers are best wired in the fall. Not in the summer.

JBP can be wired “anytime”, but are best wired in fall or just after decandling. They are perhaps the most tolerant.

JRP are very brittle and easy to snap. They should be done in fall, but bear in mind they snap easily. Anytime.

Ponderosa are very flexible and can be wired anytime. They don’t put n Wood very quickly, so wire doesn’t cut in. They also take several years to “set”. Same with Atlas Cedar.

 

[Vance Wood]

I have seen wiring damage branches. If the process of wiring (or bending after wiring) separates the cambium from the heartwood, the branch could die.

That’s why the best time to wire is in the fall. As the tree is shutting down for the winter, it “tightens up” the bond between the new softwood and the old heartwood.

With JWP, the best time is in late August until about Thanksgiving. They’re single flush, so they finish growing out before the JBP do. Wiring at other times of the year is riskier, it’s easier to accidentally damage the tree. Especially, if you “twist” the branches.

Since we’re discussing this, Junipers are best wired in the fall. Not in the summer.

JBP can be wired “anytime”, but are best wired in fall or just after decandling. They are perhaps the most tolerant.

JRP are very brittle and easy to snap. They should be done in fall, but bear in mind they snap easily. Anytime.

Ponderosa are very flexible and can be wired anytime. They don’t put n Wood very quickly, so wire doesn’t cut in. They also take several years to “set”. Same with Atlas Cedar.

I didn't mean to imply that season was an issue other than there are those that claim keeping wire on a couple of species of trees over the winter can cause damage?

 

[M. Frary]

I didn't mean to imply that season was an issue other than there are those that claim keeping wire on a couple of species of trees over the winter can cause damage?

I left wire on my mugo and Scots over last winter.
They were fine.
And my winters arent shall we say mild.

 

[0soyoung]

Good points, but you didn't mention keeping your titstips up with pines, @Adair M. It should be easy for all of us to remember.

 

[Adair M]

Good points, but you didn't mention keeping your titstips up with pines, @Adair M. It should be easy for all of us to remember.

Actually, you shouldn’t wire pines leaving the tips op. The should be pretty much straight out. Maybe a little bit up. But mostly out.

I posted a thread in the Resource section “How to use fishhooks” or something like that. But here are some pictures:

The tree: the branch illustrated is the lower left.



Wired out, as soon from above:



Wired out, as seen from the side:



Notice, the buds (needles) all point out. Not up. When I wired, I ran the wire just a little beyond the end of the wood, and let the wire support the needles that would otherwise point down. They’re flat.

This wiring was performed right after decandling in summer.

I only had time to wire the bottom 3 branches on that trip. When I returned in November, I finished the rest of tree.

 

[Adair M]

Now, a year later, the tree looks like this:



And the first branch looks like this from the side:



If you notice, all the needles are pointing up because all the new buds grow up, and the old needles have been pulled.

 

[Adair M]

It will look even better after I pull old needles again in November!

 

[Adair M]

I didn't mean to imply that season was an issue other than there are those that claim keeping wire on a couple of species of trees over the winter can cause damage?

I’ve never had that problem with JBP, Vance, but then again, I don’t live in the North.

I don’t wire deciduous trees in the fall. By then, their wood is lignified. It’s too late. Wire deciduous in the spring and summer when the shoots are soft. Remove the wire as soon as it lignifies. It just takes a few weeks.

 

[0soyoung]

Let me try to paraphrase back to you what I hear you saying - correct me, if ...

Don't try to wire the tips/buds up because you might damage them. Just make sure they aren't pointing down. They will, over the following months, turn themselves up.

Let us include JWP in this.

 

[Adair M]

Let me try to paraphrase back to you what I hear you saying - correct me, if ...

Don't try to wire the tips/buds up because you might damage them. Just make sure they aren't pointing down. They will, over the following months, turn themselves up.

Let us include JWP in this.

Not because you might damage them, it’s becsuse the new growth will grow up. If you turn the tips up, when the new shoots come in, they will make the pads too tall. Because they will be starting at a higher position.

Look at this photo again. But instead of looking at the wired branch, look at the one above, that’s not wired:



That upper branch, you can see several years of growth. You can see where the branch had been wired and set flat, then the next year new twigs came in and they weren’t as flat, and then another year and more upright... and what do you get? A branch “pad” that’s 4 inches tall!!! At this point, it’s no longer a pad at all! Just overgrown! If we start the tip ends growing up instead of out, we will end up too tall of pads.

Here is the current pad:



Looks nice, no?

And there is YET ANOTHER reason to wire the tips out, not up:

Wiring the tips up shades the woody stems. Wiring the tips flat exposes the woody stems to the sun. Exposing the stems to the sun promotes backbudding. Wiring produces micro cracks in the bark, which when exposed to sunlight promotes backbudding on the old stems. And we always like backbudding!

Oso, I used to think we were supposed to turn the pine buds up. But, no. I have learned I get much better pads wiring the buds out flat.

Even JWP. I wired this tree the same way a couple years ago. Now, with new growth it looks like:



I didn’t “set” the tufts of foliage. I wired the branches out straight. When the new growth comes in, it grows up. And produces the beautiful pads you see on this tree. I just set the structure. I let the tree fill in with foliage!

 

[Paulpash]

Sometimes by adding some wire it can strengthen a branch by moving it into the sun and orienting it upwards. I can't see any logic wiring branches for the sake of it.

 

[Clicio]

I can't see any logic wiring branches for the sake of it.

It's not just for the sake of doing it; the reason is to "hurt" the whole tree, not only some branches, as this nursery owner suggests.
I am used to wire only the branches that need wiring, so I asked here.

 

[Paulpash]

It's not just for the sake of doing it; the reason is to "hurt" the whole tree, not only some branches, as this nursery owner suggests.
I am used to wire only the branches that need wiring, so I asked here.

My opinion completely here but I'm calling bullshit on that one. By that logic if you cut a branch back on one it should be done to all... Lol

 

[Adair M]

It's not just for the sake of doing it; the reason is to "hurt" the whole tree, not only some branches, as this nursery owner suggests.
I am used to wire only the branches that need wiring, so I asked here.

The nursery owner is incorrect. If his experience says if he doesn’t wire the whole tree because the wired branch will die if he doesn’t, he’s doing something wrong!

Let me add, however, wiring is stressful to the tree. Any tree should be in excellent health before we work on it. If he’s wiring weak trees, that’s a problem.

There could be many reasons why he is experiencing what is happening. It could be wiring in the wrong time of year, being too rough when he wires, over bending, using wire that’s not strong enough so he “overbends” so that it stays where he wants it after it “relaxes”, wiring too tight...

But, I can attest that I do partial wiring all the time on my trees with no ill effects.

 

[Clicio]

The nursery owner is incorrect. If his experience says if he doesn’t wire the whole tree because the wired branch will die if he doesn’t, he’s doing something wrong!

Thanks guys, I agree it makes no sense.

 

[Lazylightningny]

However, if this is a new tree, the chances that all branches are already positioned the way you want is slim to none. You will need to wire all the branches to position them and open them up to the sunlight.