If you were 37 ...

[rockm]

That is fine for you and those who also feel this way, but to project it onto others; is that much different than telling others what a bonsai should or shouldn't be? I am not trying to be uppity here as I am indeed on a site about bonsai and I recognize that everyone here is strongly bonsai oriented. I am a plant lover and collector and while that does not make me a bonsai expert, I do know a thing or two. I can absolutely guarantee that you and many many others on this forum are much better at producing show-able bonsai than I am, but I do get it right now and again. More importantly, this is my passion and I have been working with plants since I was six. Plant propagation is part of my passion and understanding the simple act of germinating a seed can in some cases be a daunting task. I do it because I can. Where else can a get 50 Huangshan Pines for less than $5 or unlimited Ginkgo for free? For me there is a great deal of satisfaction to know I have hundreds of plants that I have started either by cuttings or seeds, and that I can train them, sell them or give them away. I absolutely love bonsai, even though there was a large part of my life when I was not actively practicing it. But my love for plants is far greater than my love for any single facet of horticulture.
I am not changing anything here, nor is it my desire to do so. But when somebody expresses a desire to propagate their own plants, to a greater or lesser degree, please don't assume that they will find the process mostly crap, boring and tedious. They can find that or their own if that is so. I do appreciate that you are honestly giving your views to these wanna be propagators, but please don't piss on our parade.
Respectfully Yours,
Rob

"Plant propagation is part of my passion and understanding the simple act of germinating a seed can in some cases be a daunting task. I do it because I cant.

THis is the crux of seed growing. You do it because you like plants. That's great, but bonsai isn't your core reason. I love plants, I love doing bonsai even more. The two can mix, but sometimes they oppose each other.

And BTW if you plant $1.50 worth of pine seeds you don't get a dozen bonsai candidates for $1.50. It doesn't directly follow. This is similar to thinking collected plants are free...

 

[thumblessprimate1]

For mame bonsai only, I'd grow Trident or A. palmatum. My standard for shohin is higher after my last visit to a shohin nursery.

 

[penumbra]

And BTW if you plant $1.50 worth of pine seeds you don't get a dozen bonsai candidates for $1.50. It doesn't directly follow. This is similar to thinking collected plants are free...

Your math is a bit off but that is ok. I sold a lot of ginkgo and other seedlings this year that cost me nothing. Its fun and profitable for me. I understand you like to collect large specimens and that is great. But the person that is looking for a 2 to 5 years+ seedling for bonsai development couldn't do better than to buy them from someone who has some idea of their future use. Its fun and easy to give these young plants a suggestive push in styling. In essence though you are quite right, plants is my primary love. My first several jobs were in the nursery business and then I spent 40 years in landscape design and consultation. In fact several of the projects I was responsible for are in your back yard. I am a certified but retired horticulturist in VA and studied aboriculture extensively. My wife went on to become a certified ISA arborist. While entomology, pathology and plant physiology were important to my carrier, plant prop was a welcome distraction that I wish I had spent more time pursuing.
Anyway, too much info already. I admire your steadfast focus on bonsai.

 

[Shima]

If you were 37 and you wanted to start a project from a seed that could have time to at least come into its own within your life time, what would you pick to grow?


P.S. Turning 37 next month.

Pine and maple. But since you love propagating, as do I, I would use multiple methods. Ground/air layers, urban/yama-dori, cuttings, grafting, planting stock in the ground, working it and waiting. The years will pass and the rewards rich.

 

[namnhi]

 

[Silentrunning]

I can’t even remember being 37 it was so long ago. However, I still feel like I’m 37. This year I made a resolution to not “rescue” any sick trees from nurseries. That advanced my collection a lot. Next year will be my year for air layering. My main subject will be Elms and Ginkgo trees. I did the seed thing and it was fun but I want to work on trees, not watch them.

 

[M. Frary]

If you want results fast grow elms.
Scots pine for conifers.
I'm 55.
I planted American elm seeds last year.
They are almost 1 inch in diameter at the dirt.
Next some will get their first chop in becoming shohin.
7 years from then give or take they will be bonsai.

 

[Njyamadori]

If you were 37 and you wanted to start a project from a seed that could have time to at least come into its own within your life time, what would you pick to grow?


P.S. Turning 37 next month.

Well actually that reminded me I need to start seeds cause I’m in my teens. But if you are 37 it’s not to late. 5-10 year old trees can still make good bonsai stock that I see on auctions. Also you can always give them to people or sell them !

 

[PaulH]

I started bonsai when I was 27 and now I'm pushing 70 and I wish I had:
-started a few hundred tridents in the ground to grow great trunks.
-started a few hundred black pines from seed.
-started a few hundred (elms, hawthorns, hornbeams, Japanese maples, ume, etc) in growing beds.
- joined a club sooner
- got a teacher sooner.
- collected many more yamadori junipers.
- had the money to buy great material.

 

[Gabler]

I started bonsai when I was 27 and now I'm pushing 70 and I wish I had:
-started a few hundred tridents in the ground to grow great trunks.
-started a few hundred black pines from seed.
-started a few hundred (elms, hawthorns, hornbeams, Japanese maples, ume, etc) in growing beds.
- joined a club sooner
- got a teacher sooner.
- collected many more yamadori junipers.
- had the money to buy great material.

I'm 25, myself. I came here looking for this kind of information. I recently purchased a bunch of seeds, and I've taken maybe two hundred hardwood cuttings this winter. Are there any slow-growing species you'd recommend I start now, so I can actually start to enjoy them some time in the next fifty years? I'm thinking species hard to find at the average nursery or garden center. The kind of material that growing from seed or cutting is really my only option. For instance, I'm preparing for this spring to dig up a Kingsville boxwood I planted in the ground and left to grow untouched for thirteen years. It's finally about three feet tall, and the trunk is actually a respectable thickness.

 

[Wulfskaar]

I just started growing trees this year from one of those kits. Also, I had several acorns fall right in front of me a couple months ago, so I stuck them in a pot, figuring maybe it was a sign. They are sprouting now and starting to create leaves. I enjoy the process so far of watching them sprout and grow. I'm also starting to collect a few other trees of different ages, so that'll be even more interesting.

 

[BonsaiPoppie]

I just turned 66 today and I have California Live Oak, Amur Maples, Trident and some two or three seeds I forgot to label, and will start planting them in a couple of weeks.

 

[Carol 83]

I just turned 66 today and I have California Live Oak, Amur Maples, Trident and some two or three seeds I forgot to label, and will start planting them in a couple of weeks.

Happy Birthday!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Instead of planting seeds of elms, zelkova, tridents and other easy to find bonsai material, why not plant persimmons, either Princess persimmon, Diospyros rhombifolia, or North American native persimmons, Diospyros virginiana, Diospyros texana, Diospyros californiana. The natives have high bonsai potential. As bonsai D. virginiana has very nice bark. The Texas persimmon and the California persimmon (native to Baja Peninsula north to San Diego), both have black fruit.

Or maybe something different, like Styrax or Halesiana. The snowbells make good bonsai, there are fabulous examples made with the Japanese species. No reason the North American species would not work.

Again, the above are examples of what I mean, if you are going to take the time to start from seed, start with trees that are not already available in the bonsai trade. With $200 in hand, I can find a damn nice trident trunk or a JBP, but I can not find a decent persimmon or a styrax. Those are the types of species, the not commonly available, that I think seed propagation would be ideal.

Others to consider, Pinus banksiana, P. rigida, P. virginiana, also the North American pinion pines, P. edulis, monophylla, & one or two others. There are the white pines, P. parvifolia, and the North American white pines, P. strobiliformis, flexilis, & maybe monticola.

Nyssa species might actually work, worth the attempt.

Page through K Murata's book, "the 4 Seasons of Bonsai" and look at the wide variety of species he uses for bonsai. Then look for the North American members of the different genera of trees he uses. Some good ideas there.

 

[Rivian]

Instead of planting seeds of elms, zelkova, tridents and other easy to find bonsai material, why not plant persimmons, either Princess persimmon, Diospyros rhombifolia, or North American native persimmons, Diospyros virginiana, Diospyros texana, Diospyros californiana. The natives have high bonsai potential. As bonsai D. virginiana has very nice bark. The Texas persimmon and the California persimmon (native to Baja Peninsula north to San Diego), both have black fruit.

Or maybe something different, like Styrax or Halesiana. The snowbells make good bonsai, there are fabulous examples made with the Japanese species. No reason the North American species would not work.

Again, the above are examples of what I mean, if you are going to take the time to start from seed, start with trees that are not already available in the bonsai trade. With $200 in hand, I can find a damn nice trident trunk or a JBP, but I can not find a decent persimmon or a styrax. Those are the types of species, the not commonly available, that I think seed propagation would be ideal.

Others to consider, Pinus banksiana, P. rigida, P. virginiana, also the North American pinion pines, P. edulis, monophylla, & one or two others. There are the white pines, P. parvifolia, and the North American white pines, P. strobiliformis, flexilis, & maybe monticola.

Nyssa species might actually work, worth the attempt.

Page through K Murata's book, "the 4 Seasons of Bonsai" and look at the wide variety of species he uses for bonsai. Then look for the North American members of the different genera of trees he uses. Some good ideas there.

you seem to know diospyros somewhat well, wikipedia didnt give me good info, are there diospyros that are hardier than virginiana and (kaki?)? Rhombifolia isnt really hardy either , I believe Ive read. Looking for one I could fieldgrow

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@Rivian - The genus Diospyros is predominately tropical. There are only 2 species that would be hardy planted in the ground in USDA zone 6, and they are Diospyros virginiana and Diospyros lotus. DIospyros virginiana is hardy through much of zone 5 when planted in the ground. Diospyros lotus is hardy only into zone 6, its good in zone 6b, it may or may not make it in zone 6a. Those are the hardiest of the Diospyros. All the rest are more tender. The genus is really mostly tropical species.

With Diospyros kaki, it has been cultivated for thousands of years and there has been some selective breeding for winter hardiness. A "generic" kaki I would treat it as being only hardy to USDA zone 7a or 7b. There are some bred by the Chinese and the Koreans that might be hardy to zone 6b.

There are some Russian and USA hybrids between kaki and virginiana that are supposedly hardy to zone 5b, but the examples I planted on the family farm in zone 6a, perished. The (kaki x virginiana) hybrids are interesting.

For use as bonsai, rather than fruit production, D. virginiana has the most coarse, alligator checked bark, which develops really nice character at relatively young age. 10 and 15 year old seedlings will begin to show fairly rough bark. This is superior to the smooth bark of the D. kaki and D. rhombifolia. D. lotus has a pebble like texture bark. By far, an old D virgianana has the coolest bark.

Sadly virtually all the rest are sub-tropical or fully tropical.

 

[Mikecheck123]

If you were 37 and you wanted to start a project from a seed that could have time to at least come into its own within your life time, what would you pick to grow?


P.S. Turning 37 next month.

Elm or birch trees grow really fast.

I've gotten decent American elms and european white birch trunks in less than two seasons. Gotta let them get 12-15 feet tall for that.

My record seed, though, is a tipu tree. 9 feet from one seed in a single season. Crazy fast.

 

[andrewiles]

@PaulH I was thinking about that very thing. Create a bunch of cuttings of various trees, put them in the ground, and see what I can grow out. I'm 42 and just retired, so trying to decide what to do when I grow up . If I can grow some interesting stuff, esp. forests, in ~20 years I'll be happy.

Is this mini personal nursery something folks really do? I don't have any room in my yard but I could buy a small plot of land nearby. I just don't know if it's crazy or not -- my neighbors already think I suffer from gardening disease. In my mind it would primarily be Japanese maples and deciduous conifers. I can collect hemlocks and other native pines from forests nearby, but I really like deciduous trees.

I'd be afraid to buy nice material until I learn to not kill cheaper stuff.
Just joined the local club
Sent an email to Boon a few weeks ago to learn more about his intensives but no response yet

 

[PaulH]

Are there any slow-growing species you'd recommend

I think I listed them... but you might add silverberry, seiju, cork and Catlin elms, oaks esp cork oaks, zelkova, atlas cedars,... and did I say TRIDENTS.

 

[ghues]

If you were 37 and you wanted to start a project from a seed that could have time to at least come into its own within your life time, what would you pick to grow?


P.S. Turning 37 next month.

If you haven’t already, pick a solid retirement savings plan and let it grow