leatherback
The Treedeemer
No, absolutely not! They like an evenly moist rootball!
I want to hear more arguments ..Bonsai Humor Thread No. 2
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Desert O'Piñon
Omono
Sometimes I also talk to myself. It's often the only intelligent conversation I can find. But at least that's not the case around here. Well, usually.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Stop Looking At ME!
ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
Of course I talk to myself.
Sometimes I need an expert opinion.
Wulfskaar
Omono
The ancient Oracle said that I was the wisest of all the Greeks. It is because I alone, of all the Greeks, know that I know nothing.
-Socrates
This is one of my main philosophies in life. In the grand scheme of things, we don't know jack squat.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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The Milwaukee Bonsai Society, has displays at the county Fair as mentioned by @shohin_branches and also maintains it's permanent collection at the Lynden Sculpture Garden, which is a several acre fine art sculpture park . In the sculpture park you can view a bonsai with a Calder or a Claes Oldenburg in the background.
So the club does try to show bonsai, as art, sculpture in particular. But the county Fair is a great occasion for getting new recruits, due to the amount of people attending the fair.
Yes, Milwaukee Bonsai Society is my home Society.
www.milwaukeebonsai.org
So the club does try to show bonsai, as art, sculpture in particular. But the county Fair is a great occasion for getting new recruits, due to the amount of people attending the fair.
Yes, Milwaukee Bonsai Society is my home Society.
www.milwaukeebonsai.org
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JoeWilson
Yamadori
Professional artist here (25 years as a production artist), married to a wonderful gal who has a significant position at an accredited museum. We - artists in general - are always encouraging people (kids, adults, it doesn't matter) to take an interest in and participate in art. Every half-decent museum has outreach programs specifically designed to get people who are outside of what we typically consider the art community involved in art. Production artists in every field (film, CG, architecture, design, photography, etc) are very supportive and encouraging people. Classical artists (painters, sculptors, etc) often want nothing more than to hang out and do art with you, even if you're not a classically trained artist. Art is more fun when everyone experiences and engages with it.
As to why... This is such a wild question to me. If you enjoy something, why wouldn't you want others to enjoy it as well? Don't you want more people who you can talk to about your interests, so you can share experiences and the enjoyment of things that you, well, enjoy? Isn't the why of it all self-evident? It's like saying why breathe, why enjoy a movie, why go to a nice restaurant...
Even if we ignore the obvious answer that art is simply fun and it's natural to want to do fun stuff with other people, there's the matter of passing down knowledge and skills that would otherwise vanish into the ether. I think this is especially relevant with things like bonsai, traditional joinery (Japanese or otherwise), blacksmithing, and so forth. Crafts that are at risk of vanishing entirely if we do not document these skills and keep these traditions alive.
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JoeWilson
Yamadori
There have been a few discussions here on art vs craft. Which is bonsai? The answer is, of course: yes. Art and craft are intrinsically linked.
If we want to talk about the historical context, we’re speaking mostly about class in the hierarchy of society. The classical arts (painting, sculpture, etc) are what the upper classes taught their children so they would have something to do while they earned income from their estate. Crafts (carpentry, tailoring, and so forth), on the other hand, were typically things that working-class people did to earn a living. I'm sure someone with a PHD in Japanese culture and/or history could give you a very nice and accurate answer to which category bonsai more closely fits.
But these terms and the differentiation between them are largely meaningless in modern society. If you’re doing anything creative, chances are it’s both. Someone would rarely be considered a skilled artist without mastering their craft, and artistry is plainly visible in the work of any skilled craftsperson, regardless of their trade. Once you understand that any creative endeavor done well, even if not to your taste or liking, is worthy of admiration, you can safely crumple up these words and chuck them into the bin.
If we want to talk about the historical context, we’re speaking mostly about class in the hierarchy of society. The classical arts (painting, sculpture, etc) are what the upper classes taught their children so they would have something to do while they earned income from their estate. Crafts (carpentry, tailoring, and so forth), on the other hand, were typically things that working-class people did to earn a living. I'm sure someone with a PHD in Japanese culture and/or history could give you a very nice and accurate answer to which category bonsai more closely fits.
But these terms and the differentiation between them are largely meaningless in modern society. If you’re doing anything creative, chances are it’s both. Someone would rarely be considered a skilled artist without mastering their craft, and artistry is plainly visible in the work of any skilled craftsperson, regardless of their trade. Once you understand that any creative endeavor done well, even if not to your taste or liking, is worthy of admiration, you can safely crumple up these words and chuck them into the bin.
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shohin_branches
Omono
The second time I got to see bonsai in Milwaukee, was at the Art Museum when Jack Douthitt's book came out and the Calatrava wing had its grand opening in 2001.
More recruits for bonsai means fewer available people in the pool for weird hobbies like stamp collecting and cacti growing.
Who grows cacti anyway, they don't grow too much, you can't water them, they are thorny and flower in the night once in 10 years...
We have to do it for society.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
ehm...
I used to grow them. And.. Some flower loads and need loads of water in the growing season. So that they can grow!
I like cacti.
I like growing them.
I just do not like them around my living spaces anymore, nor do I like repotting them, I no longer read newspapers, so I cannot even wrap them up.
BrianBay9
Masterpiece
More people involved eventually results in a larger market for raw material, bonsai, supplies, classes, bonsai professionals. How many people here have mentioned that they live in a bonsai "desert" and have to travel too far to get these things?
SailDesign
Sapling
I liken any hobby to a good restaurant. You tell people about how good it is so that they go there, which keeps it in business so that YOU can still go there.
I used to think RI was a bonsai desert, but then I discovered New England Bonsai Gardens just an hour north from me. So, after a 30-year stretch away from it, I'm back in the bonsai-killing game.
DonielDoom
Mame
Please delete this post.
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NMbonsai
Mame
I have been growing cacti for years, even before starting with bonsai. They are so low maintenance compared to bonsai. I have some native hedgehog species growing as landscaping outside with zero maintenance.ehm...
I used to grow them. And.. Some flower loads and need loads of water in the growing season. So that they can grow!
I like cacti.
I like growing them.
I just do not like them around my living spaces anymore, nor do I like repotting them, I no longer read newspapers, so I cannot even wrap them up.
I do have some more tender varieties that I bring in for the winter ( Christmas, Easter cactus, etc.). All of these were either gifts or rescues that I didn't want to see tossed out. However, don't really consider myself a cactus enthusiast, certainly not compared to bonsai.
About month ago, a neighbor was clearing out a bed and was throwing away a bunch of sedums and cacti. I reluctantly took some, potted them up, put them outside, and kind of ignored them. The cacti responded, perhaps with gratitude.
Desert O'Piñon
Omono
We are in the ideal climate, though. We're more likely to see blossoms, and, ultimately we will keep them happy just because...
...well, nature. I love cactus and succulents, but I can understand the disdain in other regions. Just as we aren't likely to grow larch or JMs here. I had a cholla (trust me, don't make that mistake!) that I dug out from the roots 4 times before it finally stopped growing.
leus
Yamadori
I don't think this is accurate. Art was defined as simply being works to be appreciated by their beauty alone; crafts are (usually) associated to utilitarian things, to perform a function. So medieval armor, swords, pottery, bridal gowns, jewelry, etc., no matter how beautiful or how masterfully executed is, it is not widely considered as art. And if gardens do not classify as art, not even the most beautiful ones, why would bonsai be?
Desert O'Piñon
Omono
By this definition, Aesop was a craftsman, as his stories taught lessons. Athletes who practice dance aren't doing so just for the dance. If a person takes an elegant sculpture and puts it in their yard to feed birds on, has it ceased to be art?
There are literal definitions, and then there are generally accepted perceptions of meaning. I agree wholeheartedly that bonsai is an artful craft. Or a craftful art. That depends on the ability/talent of the artist and the stage of the tree. Early on, it is definitely a craft. In refinement is when the art becomes obvious.
But then, by your definition, bonsai is all art. There is no utilitarian purpose. It doesn't provide any intrinsic material value to anyone. It just provokes thought, emotion, contemplation. A garden, as per your example, promotes pollination, provides food (in some gardens), allows a space for congregating, provides gas exchanges, cools the air, etc.
JoeWilson
Yamadori
The problem is trying to rigidly define "art" and "craft" as if these are diametrically opposed concepts. There is no simple rule or definition of what art is. It's a moving target that has been debated throughout history. If you got 100 artists, critics, art historians, etc, together in a room, you would not be able to get them to agree with any definition or list of what is and isn't art that you might propose.
Many of the things you've listed are considered art and are frequently displayed in art and design museums. Walk through the design wing at the Victoria and Albert and tell me you haven't seen any art. Your argument only works if we stick to the narrow view that only classical art (sculpture, painting, etc) is "real art".
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