I want to hear more arguments ..Bonsai Humor Thread No. 2

[Attmos]

We are just North Korea with more luxury goods at this point. Many people listen to one news source and don't even try to get news from outside the US even though they have access to it. Our news companies are quickly capitulating to a president that sues them for reporting on some of the horrible things he's done. Things are not good.

The average age of first time home buyers is 37 years old because the ultra-rich buy all the homes and rent them back to poor and middle-class Americans for a profit. We have no paid leave laws for new parents. We have no federal minimum paid time off. Most Americans are one medical emergency from bankruptcy. Our health insurance is just paying someone to profit off us being sick, but not too sick because then they won't approve your insurance payment and you have the choice of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for a procedure or dying. Our weather events are getting more and more severe but federal funding that supports weather predictions has been cut and federal funding for natural disaster recovery has been cut.

Thousands of people have been snatched off the streets by masked government agents and put into a concentration camp in Florida. A large portion of the citizens celebrate it because their political team is the one committing the atrocities and they think they are safe from being thrown in that same cell by the shade of their skin or the location of their birth. They don't listen to news that shows the president talking about going after "home growns" next. That part is omitted.

The country has already been slowly destroyed by corruption over decades last two generations and now we're straight up ignoring our constitution. We're just expected to carry on and keep going to work.

Oh but you can't change jobs because 90% of the job postings are scams to collect your personal data and sell it.

Well said, if a little depressing.

 

[Ozz80]

You get it. Not picking on your current home, but one of the ways its people fell for the propaganda that caused WWII is through miseducation and misinformation. Similarly did the Italians. And I can't speak for the rest of the world, but here in the States, we're seeing pretty much the same tactics a few generations later. If we don't teach history, we don't learn history. If we don't learn history, we're going to repeat it.
Critical thinking is exactly what I'm talking about. Here, students are being taught more  what to think than  how to think. American public education is more accurately defined as government brainwashing or indoctrination.

For the past 23 years - nearly half of my life - I have witnessed (along with the rest of my country) our current political leader gradually turning democracy into tyranny.

Erdogan came to power with a mild Islamist/liberal agenda, promising civil rights, freedom, EU membership, and similar ideals. He used this rhetoric to dismantle any opposition, first eliminating bureaucratic checks and later annihilating the independence of the judiciary. Now, countless opposition leaders and journalists are imprisoned on false charges, and we know we must resist - or risk never having a fair election again.

How did we get here? A lack of critical thinking is one factor, and I’m certain Turkey’s education system is far worse than the U.S. in this regard. But that’s not the main issue. Erdogan’s followers don’t support him because they can’t distinguish right from wrong; they support him because they choose not to. It’s easier for them to follow a strong leader, trusting him wholeheartedly and believing whatever he says. In fact, Erdogan has often reversed his own arguments from just a year or two prior—and his supporters parrot those new views without hesitation. There’s also an ecstatic joy in belonging to the "winning camp." They look down on democratic leaders who tolerate criticism, seeing it as weakness. Even the economic crisis, caused by surreal policies, doesn’t faze them.

We are just North Korea with more luxury goods at this point. Many people listen to one news source and don't even try to get news from outside the US even though they have access to it. Our news companies are quickly capitulating to a president that sues them for reporting on some of the horrible things he's done. Things are not good.

North Korea is an unlucky nation that suffered foreign invasions - first by Japan, then by Russia. But it’s even worse for a country to abandon its own democracy through the will (or indifference) of its people. I’m not sure if the U.S. has much in common with North Korea, but I suspect some American politicians would love to wield the kind of unchecked power Erdogan has - and some citizens would gladly accept such rule.

 

[Ozz80]

To steer the discussion back to the thread's main argument (and bonsais) , I suppose I'll have to commit a major blasphemy: Some traditionally styled Shimpaku junipers, meticulously shaped by renowned Japanese artists, look plastic and unnatural to me.

There's a park in my neighborhood where the landscaping company trims junipers into perfect spheres, even heart shapes and I can't stand them. Some of these artificially smooth pruned Shimpakus remind me of those.

 

[Attmos]

To steer the discussion back to the thread's main argument (and bonsais) , I suppose I'll have to commit a major blasphemy: Some traditionally styled Shimpaku junipers, meticulously shaped by renowned Japanese artists, look plastic and unnatural to me.

There's a park in my neighborhood where the landscaping company trims junipers into perfect spheres, even heart shapes and I can't stand them. Some of these artificially smooth pruned Shimpakus remind me of those.

Not for nothing but, Chinese and Japanese culture tend to glorify idealism. Seems, to me, like all of their attempts to recreate nature according to their ideals end up looking manicured and unnatural... because it is.

I still have no experience making a bonsai, but I've been studying techniques and styles... and I think I like when trees are actually made to represent nature as opposed to an idealistic nature.

 

[Burl]

Hot take:

Bonsai clubs can at times be gatherings of stubborn boomers that will rather take their outdated beliefs to their graves than to accept new proven insights.
"How dare you learn something from a succesful nursery owner on youtube, or some 'random' forum guy with a non japanese name, my 40 year old book says it is otherwise and facts don't change"

I still remember the first "working" evening at the local club, I never heard the words: "must, have to, only" as much in my life. I felt like I entered a cult where everyone was worshipping the "creative director"

Then they wonder why 'young' people don't join or leave after a few sessions. Sad because there is also a lot of experience and knowledge in such a club.

Fite me.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Media literacy is a skill everyone should have. Who is giving me this information? Why are they giving me this information? Do they believe this themselves or are they trying to control me through half-truths or outright lies?

This a thousand times over.

I use this same approach when getting advice on my trees. I get as many sources of advice as I can, then use a little critical thought to try to do the best thing for my tree at that particular time. Whatever ends up happening as a result is a learning opportunity. I think a few people here have been upset with me for not taking their advice.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Not for nothing but, Chinese and Japanese culture tend to glorify idealism. Seems, to me, like all of their attempts to recreate nature according to their ideals end up looking manicured and unnatural... because it is.

I still have no experience making a bonsai, but I've been studying techniques and styles... and I think I like when trees are actually made to represent nature as opposed to an idealistic nature.

You don't have to be a bonsai master to know what you like looking at.

I also prefer trees styled to look more natural.

 

[BrianBay9]

Hot take:

Bonsai clubs can at times be gatherings of stubborn boomers that will rather take their outdated beliefs to their graves than to accept new proven insights.
"How dare you learn something from a succesful nursery owner on youtube, or some 'random' forum guy with a non japanese name, my 40 year old book says it is otherwise and facts don't change"

I still remember the first "working" evening at the local club, I never heard the words: "must, have to, only" as much in my life. I felt like I entered a cult where everyone was worshipping the "creative director"

Then they wonder why 'young' people don't join or leave after a few sessions. Sad because there is also a lot of experience and knowledge in such a club.

Fite me.

Follow-on argument - A single sensei led club stagnates. OR Multiple professionals serving the same club confuses the members and slows progress on trees.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

Hot take:

Bonsai clubs can at times be gatherings of stubborn boomers that will rather take their outdated beliefs to their graves than to accept new proven insights.
"How dare you learn something from a succesful nursery owner on youtube, or some 'random' forum guy with a non japanese name, my 40 year old book says it is otherwise and facts don't change"

I still remember the first "working" evening at the local club, I never heard the words: "must, have to, only" as much in my life. I felt like I entered a cult where everyone was worshipping the "creative director"

Then they wonder why 'young' people don't join or leave after a few sessions. Sad because there is also a lot of experience and knowledge in such a club.

Fite me.

Sounds like you found the grumpy club. Not a boomer, but I"m old and open minded. GenX no seatbelts, no helmets and lead paint!

To steer the discussion back to the thread's main argument (and bonsais) , I suppose I'll have to commit a major blasphemy: Some traditionally styled Shimpaku junipers, meticulously shaped by renowned Japanese artists, look plastic and unnatural to me.

There's a park in my neighborhood where the landscaping company trims junipers into perfect spheres, even heart shapes and I can't stand them. Some of these artificially smooth pruned Shimpakus remind me of those.

So, it's not the happiest place on earth.

 

[leatherback]

Some traditionally styled Shimpaku junipers, meticulously shaped by renowned Japanese artists, look plastic and unnatural to me.

I have tried to look at this and apply a scale factor. If you take regular trees and look at them from a far distance, often the foliage and branches start to merge in shapes. This is represented in the smooth outlines manicured in bonsai. Naturally, a canopy is not a continuum, but has structure too. But asl long at the juniper domes are smooth, with caps, different heights etcetc, they look pretty natural to me. Or am I missing a point here?

I never heard the words: "must, have to, only" as much in my life. I felt like I entered a cult where everyone was worshipping the "creative director"

Then they wonder why 'young' people don't join or leave after a few sessions.

Interesting view. I must say.. we have recently re-started beginners courses at my club in Oldenzaal (NL), after seeing in my club in Steinfurt (DE) constantly attracting more people, to the point of suggestions being made to have a spin-off in my town which I could host. The first round brought in 8 new members, 6 of them seem to stay a member. For the next round we have 12 people, 3 of which whom joined when we did the first beginnercourse, and they missed a spot because it was full. And 9 new people. I run these courses. Key here is.. I do NOT tell them what they should do. I DO explain to them how tranditional styling works, what the reasons behind the rules are -as far as I know-. People then often do take the steps that follow the basic styling rules. Because it just works. Once you are settled in, know what you are doing, there is plenty of opportunity to go freestyle. But learning. Guidelines really help. As long as they are presented well.

A single sensei led club stagnates. OR Multiple professionals serving the same club confuses the members and slows progress on trees.

Yup. Happy that we have a few people in my clubs that know how to do good bonsai. And that we do not have a self-processed expert that all want to listen to (in fact, we had one in NL, who left the club because there was a big backlash from older members stating that he was not the one deciding what other people must do). With workshops we do recommend people to not bring a tree that thye took to a workshop with person A to a workshop with person B as this would indeed hamper development unless you have a real open minded workshop leader.

 

[Ozz80]

I have tried to look at this and apply a scale factor. If you take regular trees and look at them from a far distance, often the foliage and branches start to merge in shapes. This is represented in the smooth outlines manicured in bonsai. Naturally, a canopy is not a continuum, but has structure too. But asl long at the juniper domes are smooth, with caps, different heights etcetc, they look pretty natural to me. Or am I missing a point here?

You are absolutely correct that distance smooths a tree's features, and it is possible to see perfect canopies in nature, specially when viewed in perspective. Yet, I can't shake the mental image of a trimmed park tree when I look at perfectly bell-shaped domes.

It's hard to describe what constitutes taste in art, and in my case, I realize "natural" may not be the right term. Take the tree below, for example: Does it look natural with its crazy deadwood feature? Probably not. Do I like it? Absolutely.

That being said, I’m still very much a beginner in appreciating the art of bonsai, and it’s entirely possible that I’m speaking complete nonsense right now. Based on my experience with other arts and crafts, however, taste matures over time. Looking back at my early preferences in different disciplines years later, I often find myself laughing at what I once liked.

 

[leatherback]

Take the tree below

to me a great example where bonsai is elevated to the level of living art, and goes beyong mere craft..

 

[blackadam]

found that jaw-dropping tree described as Masahiko Kimura Juniperus
for me looks like striking heron something between those 2 pictures..



any more pictures of this tree?

 

[Ozz80]

found that jaw-dropping tree described as Masahiko Kimura Juniperus
for me looks like striking heron something between those 2 pictures..

View attachment 608386View attachment 608387

any more pictures of this tree?

This is something I saw in the book "Growing & Styling Juniper Bonsai". I don't have more pictures, but something equally good (if not better) from the same artist shared in the book is this Procumbens :

 

[blackadam]

A magia de Masahiko Kimura

A TRANSFORMAÇÃO DE UMA ÁRVORE É um dos 10 livros mais surprendentes que eu tenho na minha biblioteca, e também recomendo a todos. Você pode encomendar na livraria Leonardo da Vinci. O livro do me…

aidobonsai.com

more of his trees..

 

[leatherback]

A magia de Masahiko Kimura

A TRANSFORMAÇÃO DE UMA ÁRVORE É um dos 10 livros mais surprendentes que eu tenho na minha biblioteca, e também recomendo a todos. Você pode encomendar na livraria Leonardo da Vinci. O livro do me…

aidobonsai.com

more of his trees

Agreed, Kimura is not much of an artist. He knows the craft though.

 

[Ozz80]

Agreed, Kimura is not much of an artist. He knows the craft though.

You mean witchcraft?

 

[Attmos]

It's hard to describe what constitutes taste in art, and in my case, I realize "natural" may not be the right term. Take the tree below, for example: Does it look natural with its crazy deadwood feature? Probably not. Do I like it? Absolutely.

Fair point.

 

[shohin_branches]

found that jaw-dropping tree described as Masahiko Kimura Juniperus
for me looks like striking heron something between those 2 pictures..

View attachment 608386View attachment 608387

any more pictures of this tree?

I have photos of his other trees from when I met him.

 

[blackadam]

i fell in watching his trees for like a half day..
they are impressive
but that bird-like hit me hardest