Clicio
Masterpiece
I guess you are right.
Talking behind ones back is not nice.
Talking behind ones back is not nice.
I think this tree was ruined .... thoughts
- Thread starter choppychoppy
- Start date
choppychoppy
Chumono
I said this directly to him in the FB comments under my own name. I'm not going behind anyone's back. And this was also posted in a group with over 6000 members and I am a member as well. If comments are allowed I can make them. Also not specifically regarding this tree but I also personally feel it a huge disservice to someone to say good job if you think otherwise. That this tree TO ME was poor work with this material was just my thoughts which is why I was interested to see if others felt different and why. And I feel that any picture posted to the internet is available for anyone's discussion at any time. If you don't want an image discussed don't post it on the web.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
I'm pretty sure this tree exhibits "Bunion Style"
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Bonsai is like singing....some have it and some don't......
Those that don't should never be allowed to pick up the shears. The tree had all the makings of a show worthy bunjin in a one setting styling. This was not the styling it deserved.
Those that don't should never be allowed to pick up the shears. The tree had all the makings of a show worthy bunjin in a one setting styling. This was not the styling it deserved.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
There is an actual FB group...that does this. I pulled myself from that group. It would gather mediocre trees and tear into them. It wasn't what I first thought the group to be. No names of group...Because that's just as bad in my book.
I just feel not hearing the ones thoughts of direction...or their hearing our comments...falls a bit flat to me and how it reminds me of one particular group...that took photos from other FB groups to pick apart. My point...is the owner doesn't hear squat of our comments. So how do I justify offering up advice...I don't believe in sugar coating by any means...but I prefer the party one is discussing is part of the mix. I left one FB group for that very reason...when I joined I thought my own trees mediocre at best...wanting to learn from their knowledge. Well...it didn't sit well the longer I thought of what I was part of...and come to learn...we came across as a bunch of snobbish bullys. But fortunately...the owner of the tree wasn't insulted by being out of that loop. But I hated being part of it.
Clicio
Masterpiece
I am sorry, of course this is not to start any useless flamewar, but I think you are not right.
First, by international copyright laws even on the Internet any image has an author, and have to be respected.
Second, we've been discussing not the images, but a work by someone that is not here and can't reply, work that was done on the tree displayed on the pictures and not the pictures themselves.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
I am not sure on the expertise you have when it comes to bonsai. I consider myself a fairly competent technician when it come to bonsai. I can tell you without a doubt that this is very poor work. The tree has been disrespected, and to me that it all that is important. When the artist shows respect to the tree then the artist deserves the respect he's earned. To just cut up a plant and post it wherever is then open to debate....by anyone.
Copyright laws mostly pertain to those seeking to enrich themselves with someone elses work. This is hardly happening here. Since this is a learning environment we can call this "fair use".....period!
....so with that in mind....what did you learn?
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
I'm not sure what I learned... But regardless of hurting anyone's feelings....when look at the before and after pictures of this tree....it makes me cringe...
I hope it lives, I think it will, but as previously stated, it's set back quite a bit.
Smoke, you say the tree was disrespected.
By that, I think you're saying, in layman's terms, the tree was over-worked to a point that it's health has been compromised.
Since we know that THE HEALTH OF THE TREE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, I think that this is what you mean....right???
If so, I guess that's what I learned.
Thank you!
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
That is my initial concern. It didn't look that strong starting out... and then to have 80% of the foliage removed may just be too much.
The design, by itself, does not bother me... but I think it was styled like an informal upright on top of a long skinny trunk... instead of as a bunjin.
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
I want to clarify what I posted above...I cringe not because of the style, but because of the major foliage removal...and potential harm done.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
This California suffered from the same thing. A large mass of long spindly branches. Respecting the tree means making use of wire in an effort to make the best image possible and work the foliage mass over time. Not just hack the shit out of it and call it a day. That is being respectful to the tree.
2017
2017
Clicio
Masterpiece
So I'm learning a lot.
But...
I guess we will never know one year from now if the tree survived or not.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
Again...because the owner of tree has no idea this is going on. So won't be given any details.
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
Ok, and in doing so, you'd not be comprising the trees health greatly...
Ahh, full circle ?
Thank you Al!
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
Yep...unless the owner joins Bnut and posts it like, "please help my bonsai!"....
Lol!
Just playing around...
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
What kind of tree is this BTW???
SCOTS???
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
I get that...but we could just do a google search as well...and critique and state what people did wrong. It's a waist of energy if one does not learn a lesson from advice given...no? That is my thing...why critique if one is not learning from it? I guess it stems from one I and many respect...having ones go on and on about him in a group...with his not having a way to defend his choices and direction. Yeah...that's when I said...what am I part of !?! And made the right decision for me and left. Same thing applies. When it's personal...it hits home.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
This is why I don't like styling by committee. There are often divergent opinions, levels of experience, vision and levels of skills. In the end it looks like it has been styled by a class of fifth-graders who just found and consumed a bottle of teachers gin. I don't stay that because of this tree but because of at least two occurrences of the same practice attempted by our club, and the disastrous results of the efforts. Without a single vision one person is going to make an upright, another a wind swept and yet still another the in-evadible attempt at a cascade.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
Being to far to drive to a club...I find any information of clubs insightful! So a styling committee several decide the direction of one tree? They all work on it then?
jriddell88
Omono
I understand this is in the early stages , what is your future image for this tree? Left side is super heavy with a lot of straight branches , right side you put a lot of movement in , I’m just curious , not disrespect just curious , this is an oddball , I hesitated to even post this because of your attack mode lol , not trying to stir the pot , but it is rough to look at currently ? Just trying to absorb over here , I like your blog and enjoy your wisdom , I’m just curious, it just seems odd ,busy? how big is this tree ?
