rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Always baffles me that people think spending less money on bad material makes more sense. No money does not equal quality but it’s certainly an indication of it.
I guess I'm a snob---- the reverse kind
- Thread starter Joe Dupre'
- Start date
MalsRFun in TN
Mame
I'm a propagator at heart and a Japanese maple addict. Getting/creating a show quality tree isn't a goal, but I find everyone's bonsai journey interesting. I'm an active member of the local bonsai club. Talking trees is my calm place.I admire great developed bonsai, but I love my sticks dearly.
I am no young chicken.
Arguing and shaming about someone else's hobby seems like a sad waste of time. Life is short.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Oh puhleeze. I’m almost as old as you. My mom grew in depression dust bowl Texas my dad in depression era Appalachia. Both instilled frugality in me as well. One lesson they taught was to buy something ONCE instead of buying the same thing cheaper three times and replacing it three times. Thats basically what your doing believing cheaper is always better and stretching to buy something is always bad.
Gabler
Masterpiece
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
I do believe there is a trade off with trees regarding cost vs time. Typically when you buy a higher priced tree, you are buying someone else's time to develop that tree.
Some people enjoy taking a seedling and seeing what they can do with it. Some people want something that already has a trunk and just needs further development.
I also understand the "Im getting to old to see a tree that needs 20 years of development to get anywhere" as I am 55 myself.
There is room for the entire range of preferences in the world of bonsai. Do what makes you happy.
I might not agree with other people's approach/preferences, as I have my own way of wanting to do bonsai.
In the end, it is none of my business to tell other people how to spend their money.
Some people enjoy taking a seedling and seeing what they can do with it. Some people want something that already has a trunk and just needs further development.
I also understand the "Im getting to old to see a tree that needs 20 years of development to get anywhere" as I am 55 myself.
There is room for the entire range of preferences in the world of bonsai. Do what makes you happy.
I might not agree with other people's approach/preferences, as I have my own way of wanting to do bonsai.
In the end, it is none of my business to tell other people how to spend their money.
I have a forrest of hornbeam seedlings from my garden but also bought some entry level collected trees for a couple of 100€. I value and enjoy both types of material. Working on cheap trees teaches me to work on the more expensive stuff.
Lets not start about my habit of collecting pots…..
Low budget material will only get you so far unless you have lot of patience. I find the more expensive trees encourage me to become better and are faster to reward my efforts.
Lets not start about my habit of collecting pots…..
Low budget material will only get you so far unless you have lot of patience. I find the more expensive trees encourage me to become better and are faster to reward my efforts.
Joe Dupre'
Masterpiece
I am sorry, rockm, for my unmitigated gall of having an opinion different from yours. That certainly should not be tolerated.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
You really have me confused. You keep on stating that people should spend lots on their trees, and that people who grow from seed or cutting are wasting their time.
Yes if I look on the forum I only see lower end starting material on your posts.
So..
Are you just not postingyour real trees?
Are you just trolling?
Out here to annoy people?
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
I dont think you have looked far enough or you've confused him with someone else.
Rockm has posted some very nice trees that are not lower end starting material.
His oak and one of his azaleas are two that come to mind immediately
This thread is starting to devolve into a proverbial pissing contest and it really shouldnt be.
I get that people have strong opinions in this area of bonsais, but again, it is really no ones business to tell someone else how to spend their money or time
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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I started one maple as a cutting over 25 years ago and, luckily, caught lightning in a bottle with its development. The other one was purchased about 6 years ago as a fairly developed Japanese import for $$$. As it turns out, I like them both a lot, and I believe I'm making each of them a bit better each year. Don't ask me which one was the best deal from a $ point of view, as my answer would be "neither"... and "both"... as always, it depends 
.
My cutting grown Gen z maple today
My imported maple (likely millennial or even Gen X) 4 years ago, and today
.My cutting grown Gen z maple today
My imported maple (likely millennial or even Gen X) 4 years ago, and today
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Right.
Not sure why everything needs to be an argument.
We do what we like most and we learn from our own mistakes the best.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Oh Stop being hurt. Cmon be honest —you think any one who spends more than you do is needlessly pissing their money away. If you don’t spend the time mixing soil or not using plastic tubs you’re not really doing the work. You hint that you’re being a snob but get offended when someone points out you may be right
It takes one to know one
I’ve been where you are and concluded that the “I do it all myself and don’t spend money” attitude is a lot of work with results that aren’t really in line with the effort expended.
The process is fine for some. For others there has to be other rewards like having trees that are mostly developed or at least 25 years down the road from a plastic tub.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Good one
your search capabilities must suck pretty bad or youre just trollin.
fredman
Masterpiece
What she said...is soooo meI don't really have anything nice enough bonsai-wise... I enjoy the journey. I like collecting as it involves being out in the woods, exploring and enjoying outdoors. I like keeping collected trees alive and try to develop them, too.
There is no reason to put them in good soil yet.
I get positive feedback here and it pleases me.
Upbringing has a lot to do with this, too.
My grandparents were through WW I, October revolution, civil war, golodomor, WW II.
My parents were through WW II. All of them knew starvation at some point of their lives and shortages for the most of their lives.
I never knew any of it personally, only by their stories and carefulness of making waste...
That aside, I spend money on something I really need or something that brings me joy, but I don't like spending money unnecessarily.
No principles involved. It's just how I am.
I admire great developed bonsai, but I love my sticks dearly.
I am no young chicken.
My son will be stuck with all of it eventually.
Except, I think I do have some nice trees to...
Mike Westervelt
Chumono
I think it all depends on your goals, if you view bonsai as leisure/backyard hobby (like me) you can participate forever without spending much money.
However if your goals include creating showable trees then it will cost something whether it's money for material, pots, and supplies, or many years of time, and still pots and supplies.
However if your goals include creating showable trees then it will cost something whether it's money for material, pots, and supplies, or many years of time, and still pots and supplies.
_#1_
Omono
I would like to know what's the secrete to grow something like this from seed!?
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
That is probably a yamadori collected from the wild and developed into a bonsai, not grown from seed.
I am guessing you probably know that?
AGentleman
Yamadori
My skill level does not warrant the quality scissors I use.
But I thoroughly enjoy using them.
Sorta feel a teensy bit guilty.
Greg
(Tool snob but not a tool)
But I thoroughly enjoy using them.
Sorta feel a teensy bit guilty.
Greg
(Tool snob but not a tool)
amcoffeegirl
Masterpiece
Oh - don’t get me wrong if I’m buying someone else’s time invested growing a tree or making pottery then I will fork over the bucks!
But I still enjoy the root cuttings of my own creation.
This year I was given cuttings of a seed grown ficus- these are the most precious items in my collection! I can’t replace these!
There are a few others who have this plant but not many. Zero cost to me but high emotional return in growing these out!
(I did try to purchase the tree but another buyer beat me to it. )
Would I have preferred a 5 year head start? Sure - who wouldn’t! Am I still overwhelmed with joy with each new leaf! Absolutely- yes!
But I still enjoy the root cuttings of my own creation.
This year I was given cuttings of a seed grown ficus- these are the most precious items in my collection! I can’t replace these!
There are a few others who have this plant but not many. Zero cost to me but high emotional return in growing these out!
(I did try to purchase the tree but another buyer beat me to it. )
Would I have preferred a 5 year head start? Sure - who wouldn’t! Am I still overwhelmed with joy with each new leaf! Absolutely- yes!
_#1_
Omono
Absolutely a yamadori!That is probably a yamadori collected from the wild and developed into a bonsai, not grown from seed.
I am guessing you probably know that?
And this is a Mirai tree I borrowed from the interwebs lol.My question was mostly in jest
But it still stands though. Is it possible in ones lifetime to grow a tree to create deadwood like that? And design the deadwood to flow naturally as old collected yamadori?
