I guess I'm a snob---- the reverse kind

[Cadillactaste]

My skill level does not warrant the quality scissors I use.

View attachment 620933

But I thoroughly enjoy using them.

Sorta feel a teensy bit guilty.
Greg
(Tool snob but not a tool)

My favorite pair...look how long I've had them . Adair Martin told me to get them. I have stainless steel of different sizes. I've abused these. Cut wire with them as well . Sharpen them with the tool that came with my kitchen block knife set. Still going strong. I'm glad you like yours...truly. But these wee scissors surprise me. I absolutely love these cheap things.

Jonas from Bonsai Tonight has them now...and notably cheaper.

 

[Maros]

Absolutely a yamadori! And this is a Mirai tree I borrowed from the interwebs lol.

My question was mostly in jest

But it still stands though. Is it possible in ones lifetime to grow a tree to create deadwood like that? And design the deadwood to flow naturally as old collected yamadori?

This is an interesting thought line for me. A lot of us think about achieving desired results with our trees either fast or possible within a single person's lifetime. And we compare our trees to products of 2-3 generations of work on asian trees. If we accept that, due to age or health limitations, we will have to pass our creations on to the second generation of artists, maybe it will be easier to accept the imperfections or limitations of our lifetime progress.

 

[shohin_branches]

To understand the principle, you would have to have been raised by people born in the early 1900's. I'm 71 and my mom and dad were born before 1920. I heard stories about the hard times while I was growing up. To these people, being full after a meal was a luxury. I guess having way more than I need is somehow distasteful to me. I've become somewhat of a minimalist. Your mileage may vary and that's perfectly alright.

Not really, there are poor people that exist at all points of time and learn to survive hard times. I grew up fairly poor in the 80's and 90's, my father was raised in the housing projects by a single mother. I did dirt poor bonsai as a kid. Eventually I got into good tech jobs and I was able to pay for the therapy to work past my poverty anxiety.

Now I have both cheap trees and a couple more expensive trees that are in refinement. Bonsai when I was a kid was a way for me to be outside all day to keep me safe from abuse. Now it's a way for me to relax after a long stressful day of software development. Forcing austerity on myself when I've successfully clawed my way out of poverty is unnecessary. My wife pushed me to get my trees out of plastic containers and into real bonsai pots or tokoname training containers so they'd look nicer in our yard and it's vastly improved how I feel about my own collection.

I have to live my own life not carry on other people's trauma.

 

[Charlo]

My favorite pair...look how long I've had them . Adair Martin told me to get them. I have stainless steel of different sizes. I've abused these. Cut wire with them as well . Sharpen them with the tool that came with my kitchen block knife set. Still going strong. I'm glad you like yours...truly. But these wee scissors surprise me. I absolutely love these cheap things.

Jonas from Bonsai Tonight has them now...and notably cheaper. View attachment 620935

I have expensive hand crafted scissors from Jonas. I love them. However, I have 2 pairs of these that I bought from Bonsaify, and they are the ones I find myself using the most. They are light weight and shorter. I find them easier to use and carry.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I guess the questions are what do we want and when do we want it? If one wants a Walter Pall tree today, well bonsai is going to be an expensive hobby. I very much enjoy my time with the trees and also the development process. Most of my material is young or nursery stock and Ive never spent more than a couple hundred on a tree. I will reward myself with bonsai pots if and when a tree ever gets there. But I am also just one lottery win away from being cured of my reverse snobbery.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I have expensive hand crafted scissors from Jonas. I love them. However, I have 2 pairs of these that I bought from Bonsaify, and they are the ones I find myself using the most. They are light weight and shorter. I find them easier to use and carry.

Yes...I find the same thing. I've some higher end ones. These are my go to. And they have taken a beating by misuse.

Adair knows his stuff he had me buy them. He did have me buy surgical tweezers off Jonas. For my pine work. Also those are above par as well.

I do have some defoliating shears from American Bonsai I think... those I've a mad love for. Make defoliating that azalea less a pain. But my go to...those cheap ones I mentioned.

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

I wouldn't call myself a bonsnob. But because my my skill is still so undeveloped, I'll spend a lot more time than money at this point in my journey. But it doesn't seem crazy to me to procure someone else's time in material already developed.
My dad was a MOPAR nut, and I fondly reminisce about the days I despised running all over Texas and Oklahoma just to drag some ancient hulking steel carcass back to clutter the yard. One more obstacle to mow around. Until bonsai, I never understood why he spent so much time, and probably as much money on his passion, and I heavily wish I could have one more road trip with him. After all, he did find my '74 Challenger daily driver for $900 back in '94.
Anyhow, I honestly haven't earned the right, in my own over-analyzing mind, to spend real dollars on any tree that I would most likely just kill off. If I have the skill, eventually, then I'll be willing to consider putting down a couple hundred bucks on developed material, especially since I've really committed to the art somewhat late in life for such a long-term craft.
Why can't both ways be valid? I wouldn't take credit for someone else's work, but after a few years, especially with major changes, I would have enough fingerprints on it to share the credit. However, if I have a tree entirely my own, when it goes to the next artist, it becomes their tree, to claim or not to claim is their choice.

 

[Burl]

Why can't both ways be valid?

Uhm sorry this is the internet. You need to pick a side and double down. Those are the rules of engagement.

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

A snob is a snob,
right down to the core.
It doesn't matter,
whether rich or poor.
I can't point fingers;
I've been one before.
One of these days
my trees will be lore,
and I'll be a snob
you just can't ignore.

My talent at present
is not all that great;
I haven't a tree
for haters to hate.
But one of these days
(I hope not too late),
I'll have some material
that might fascinate.
But 'til that day comes,
I'm forced to just wait.

 

[Attmos]

I don’t get that it’s a matter of principle. Seems to me it’s a matter of personal preference. Principle mucks it up with a bunch of judgy bullshit

I would describe the 'principle' as a desire to enjoy a hobby over stressing about it in whatever way. Needing to spend a bunch of money adds an aspect to the hobby that is, in a lot of ways, unnecessary, and stressful.
This is, of course, my opinion and I still have yet to produce one bonsai, lol. I have been able to keep my Fukien Tea Tree alive for several years now though.

Not that I blame anyone who can do it without breaking the bank.

 

[JudyB]

I don't think anyone needs to be a snob, reverse or otherwise. By calling yourself a snob (reverse) seems like you're judging the other direction of your choice. I could care less how much your tools and soil costs, either direction on the scale. And yes you can make amazing trees out of collected material and air layers. But the choice to "buy" time is not something to look down on either.

That said, I think you're missing out on some of the greatest artistic parts of the hobby - pairing trees with pots is a large part of the art form. After all it is "trees in pots." I don't think you can truly appreciate a well made tree to the fullest without a setting that it's deserving of. Plastic for a nice tree is something that I'd never encourage if there is an affordable alternative.

 

[Attmos]

I guess the questions are what do we want and when do we want it? If one wants a Walter Pall tree today, well bonsai is going to be an expensive hobby. I very much enjoy my time with the trees and also the development process. Most of my material is young or nursery stock and Ive never spent more than a couple hundred on a tree. I will reward myself with bonsai pots if and when a tree ever gets there. But I am also just one lottery win away from being cured of my reverse snobbery.

 

[leatherback]

Some mediocre, free, trees.

 

[pandacular]

After learning what goes into building and maintaining high end trees, I see the prices they go for as quite low—especially old yamadori and multi-generational maples. Same goes for pots, especially large and antique ones.

I generally agree with the attitude that bonsai does not have to be expensive, but it is so often coupled with a few ideas that are quite damaging to the community. One of them is the DIY aesthetic, where it “only counts” if you did everything on the tree (with the interlocutor picking whatever definition is convenient to explain their languishing trees). This is a fine personal preference, but most often, it’s a judgement. In fact, I have often got judgemental comments about trees that I am working from my mentors gardens along the lines of “checkbook bonsai”—when the reality is that I have a relationship to ensure the continuity of these legacy trees.

My approach to working on excellent trees without paying an arm and leg is to give up on the idea of owning great trees, but give myself opportunities to work on them. I work on trees at our local museum and in my teachers’ and mentor’s gardens. For my personal pursuit of bonsai, I want to be working on multi-generational trees, as there is no substitute for that age in training.

Finally, if you get good at valuating bonsai and are patient, connected, and skilled, you can quite easily get “expensive” trees for a fraction of their value. There’s no bonsai without generational turnover and those with great trees are willing to give up market value in exchange for faith of continuity.

 

[shohin_branches]

It's up to everyone to determine their level of involvement in the hobby and what their "goals" and personal reasons are for engaging in it.

I like hanging out with friends and talking about trees. I want to keep making incremental improvements to the trees I have and occasionally let go of trees that I'm not excited about anymore so someone else can move them forward. I don't enter them in shows that often because I'm hyper critical about my own work. Bonsai as a hobby has given me so much over the years, mostly patience, planning, and friends. Also a brother.

Other people have different goals with their hobby and that's cool too. Some people want to build nice bonsai stock, Some people want to curate a collection of professionally maintained trees. Others want to win all the ribbons they can. Some people want to travel and teach. Figure out what bonsai is for you and don't stress about what bonsai is for other people. That's outside of your control.

 

[Wulfskaar]

It's up to everyone to determine their level of involvement in the hobby and what their "goals" and personal reasons are for engaging in it.

I like hanging out with friends and talking about trees. I want to keep making incremental improvements to the trees I have and occasionally let go of trees that I'm not excited about anymore so someone else can move them forward. I don't enter them in shows that often because I'm hyper critical about my own work. Bonsai as a hobby has given me so much over the years, mostly patience, planning, and friends. Also a brother.

Other people have different goals with their hobby and that's cool too. Some people want to build nice bonsai stock, Some people want to curate a collection of professionally maintained trees. Others want to win all the ribbons they can. Some people want to travel and teach. Figure out what bonsai is for you and don't stress about what bonsai is for other people. That's outside of your control.

This is the best way to live your life.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Let's have a little perspective, shall we? The opening line of my post. "Not really a snob, but just put off by spending "too much" money on MY hobbies." It was intended as a toning down of the hyperbole of the title of the post and as a statement of how I do things in MY hobbies. In short---- you do you and I'll do me.

 

[pandacular]

Perspective is what I’m trying to provide: you shared yours—in a provocative way no less—so I’m sharing mine.

If it was really “you do you” than why the need to call it snobbery, and post a thread about it?

Judy said it best really. No need to be a snob, nor is there a reason to limit the ways you engage in the hobby.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Perspective is what I’m trying to provide: you shared yours—in a provocative way no less—so I’m sharing mine.

If it was really “you do you” than why the need to call it snobbery, and post a thread about it?

Judy said it best really. No need to be a snob, nor is there a reason to limit the ways you engage in the hobby.

I guess a little hyperbole is not to be taken lightly around here. People need to chill a bit and not take things so seriously.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Perspective is what I’m trying to provide: you shared yours—in a provocative way no less—so I’m sharing mine.

If it was really “you do you” than why the need to call it snobbery, and post a thread about it?

Judy said it best really. No need to be a snob, nor is there a reason to limit the ways you engage in the hobby.

I think this thread is a tongue-in-cheek way to poke fun at people who pay relatively big bucks for the best stuff, especially when a few of them come off as a bit snobby to those of us who can't match them monetarily.

This is a normal thing in every single hobby ever.