leatherback
The Treedeemer
Really? Can you show me a good bonsai of this species?
Huge Jade Tree into a Bonsai - Help with cuts
- Thread starter cbrshadow23
- Start date
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Also a Crassula. Just has different shaped leaves. Otherwise growth habit/trunk is similar
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cbrshadow23
Shohin
Hey quit trying to steal the fun before I even get into the hobby haha.
Since you have over 2,300 posts here I'm sure you've seen even more than I have and might just be looking for an argument. I'm just hoping to learn.
You and I probably disagree about what a "good bonsai" is.
Here's a P. Afra from Jim Smith.
A nice looking Crassula Ovata
cbrshadow23
Shohin
Makes sense, then! I thought it may be different since it's a gollum jade. I'd be excited if mine turned out anything like the one pictured in post#2! I'll keep it for reference.Also a Crassula. Just has different shaped leaves. Otherwise growth habit/trunk is similar
leatherback
The Treedeemer
I would say neither are crassula ovata.
I will butt out. However, i always think it is good to get a start that puts you up for succes. If you prefer to work on crassula thats your choice.
I will butt out. However, i always think it is good to get a start that puts you up for succes. If you prefer to work on crassula thats your choice.
BubblePopScott
Mame
I also like jade bonsai, I think you have a good base to work with. Love to see what you can do with it, and how it back buds after the big chop
Colorado
Masterpiece
What a bunch of dumbass comments.
Walter Pall just posted a GRAPE VINE bonsai on this very forum. It’s currently still sitting on the second page. And it’s a great bonsai.
Prostrate-habit junipers aren’t trees either; are they not “allowed” to be bonsai? What about mugo pine, those are shrubby; not allowed in the club? Rosemary - that’s an herb, can it be allowed? Blueberry? Ivy?
This type of antiquated thinking is what stifles advancement and deters creativity.
Colorado
Masterpiece
You’ve got a nice trunk to start with! As far as style, I’d aim for an informal upright (like the Jim Smith example above).
Yours is going to be a bit more challenging since crassula ovata have larger leaves than p. afra. You’re going to have to grow it out quite a bit more to create a convincing scale for the image you’re trying to achieve. But you’re got a nice start!
Don’t let these dummies tell you “only Japanese Black Pine and Shimpaku Junipers can be BONSAI.” They are probably the same people who still think you can’t make quality bonsai from Ponderosa Pine or Rocky Mountain Juniper.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Pff.. Now who is making dumbass comments.
First, Crassula ovata and P. afra are VERY different species when it comes to growth. P afra has a natural upright shrub-like growth habit with intense side-branching. C. ovata due to the larger leaves and much weaker branches tend to become droopy and they make side-branches much leass readily. The branches get so heavy, that they cannot keep themself upright and depending on the water status of the plant, they change their shape and canopy. In bad situation I have seen branches break off under their own weight. Add to that their rough growth habit and large leaves and you have a species that is challenging to say the least. As said: I do not believe in them as bonsai, and the number of plants I have seen from this species that get remotely near bonsai approaches 0.
The reply of the OP confirms this. What he considered to be this species is actually P Afra, which is a different beast altogether.
I have not said anything about grapes, pines, prostrata or anything. If you would have looked at what people post you would have realized I try pretty much anything I can get my hands on to see how they respond. Based on over a decade of keeping Crassula, I have come to the conclusion that I do not believe in this species for bonsai, no matter how pleasing the larger specimen can become. Which is why I was wondering: What have I missed, and I asked for pictures of good bonsai made of C ovata.
Just because you think anything in a dish can be called bonsai, that does not make it so. I think it is the wrong appraoch telling people new to the hobby to start off on a project wher in a decade they might conclude: hm.. Why did nobody warn me of the negatives of this species. To me that is a more honest approach than preaching that anything can be a bonsai.
This is a nice trunk. It can be a nice plant. But I am not convinced it will ever be a bonsai.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
@cbrshadow23 it might be nice if you could add this crassula to the jade lovers delight thread?
Colorado
Masterpiece
Haha. If you insist on being closed-minded, then that is (obviously) fine. But it’s irritating when closed-minded people push their agenda as gospel on someone who is excited about a new project and simply looking for some constructive advice.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
I have not seen any arguments why you feel that C ovata is a good species for bonsai. I have given my clear reasons why this is not an ideal species for bonsai. Once again, I invite to show an example of a good Cassula ovata bonsai. Do note previous comments on this threa, and in my own thread on C ovata.
One could also consider someone doggedly refuting that there are certain basic elements required before something is a bonsai is closed minded. Not every trimmed plant in a pot is a bonsai. The sooner someone new to the hobby learns that, the better trees the person will create. But maybe you are a beginner yourself, and you have not really seen any good bonsai shows, and need to still realize this yourself. In that case, you are excused for being short-sighted.
How do you like my Koi by the way?
Colorado
Masterpiece
I don’t think it is a good species for bonsai!
But I’m not going to tell other people who are excited about theirs that it can’t be done.
Just because YOU haven’t made or seen a good one, and just because I haven’t been able to make a good one, doesn’t mean that it is impossible to make a really great bonsai tree out of crassula ovata material (and countless other non-traditional species, for that matter).
But I’m not going to tell other people who are excited about theirs that it can’t be done.
Just because YOU haven’t made or seen a good one, and just because I haven’t been able to make a good one, doesn’t mean that it is impossible to make a really great bonsai tree out of crassula ovata material (and countless other non-traditional species, for that matter).
leatherback
The Treedeemer
So your constructive criticism is NOT telling someone that in order to get a nice tree it would be best to focus on species that are easier, even though you do not consider the species suitable? And if someone DOES make the statement that maybe this is not an ideal species, start defending the species choice?
I am so happy I have other people teaching me, who are honest with me, and telling me when I have a plant that is either beyong my skill evel, or has no realistic future in my lifetime.
I am so happy I have other people teaching me, who are honest with me, and telling me when I have a plant that is either beyong my skill evel, or has no realistic future in my lifetime.
Colorado
Masterpiece
No need to get so defensive. It’s just a debate.
I’m not going to argue about this with you any more because we’re at an impasse. You think it’s best to tell him or her that he or she shouldn’t bother with crassula because you’re unable to make a good bonsai out of it. I think it’s best to encourage someone to try something new and figure it out for themself what works and what doesn’t. Who knows, maybe they’ll create something new and extraordinary! And maybe they won’t.
It would be completely different if the OP was contemplating spending money to purchase the tree. But he or she already has it. Might as well have some fun and maybe learn something along the way. Just my .02
By the way, here’s an example that took 15 seconds to find on Google:
Looks like pretty nice bonsai to me. If you disagree, then I guess we’re just at another impasse. ?
I’m not going to argue about this with you any more because we’re at an impasse. You think it’s best to tell him or her that he or she shouldn’t bother with crassula because you’re unable to make a good bonsai out of it. I think it’s best to encourage someone to try something new and figure it out for themself what works and what doesn’t. Who knows, maybe they’ll create something new and extraordinary! And maybe they won’t.
It would be completely different if the OP was contemplating spending money to purchase the tree. But he or she already has it. Might as well have some fun and maybe learn something along the way. Just my .02
By the way, here’s an example that took 15 seconds to find on Google:
Looks like pretty nice bonsai to me. If you disagree, then I guess we’re just at another impasse. ?
Michael P
Omono
How many of got started with a species or specimen not considered ideal for bonsai? Quite a few I'll wager. This is cbrshadow23's first tree, a gift. He is excited about it! How many of our first trees turned into "real bonsai"? Not many.
cbr, enjoy this tree, learn from it, it is your introduction to bonsai. If you like the hobby, you will almost inevitably acquire more trees. But this one will be special, and if it pleases you that is all that is required.
cbr, enjoy this tree, learn from it, it is your introduction to bonsai. If you like the hobby, you will almost inevitably acquire more trees. But this one will be special, and if it pleases you that is all that is required.
Forrestford
Shohin
Forrestford
Shohin
Lol. What are you talking about. Im just telling hiim why I think people say is not a bonsai.
I then went on to say "But who cares, lots of people like them and train them to look like trees. I do, doesn’t bother me if they aren't a true bonsai. If you like it train it into something beautiful."
I dont care, I like them and consider them a "bonsai" I can see why they arnt in a traditional sense but, again, who cares.
cbrshadow23
Shohin
Thanks everyone for chiming in. Through the above comments I'm actually learning a fair amount, which was the goal.
I can see now that Leatherback was trying to be helpful by pointing out the downsides of using this species as a bonsai. His comments are easy to take the wrong way, since he didn't explain himself in those initial comments. They came off to me as a challenge rather than helpful. Later posts cleared that up.
I'll keep the tree and continue to have fun with it, but maybe change my goals a bit based on what I've learned. I also plan on trying to find a good sized P.Afra so that I can bonsai it. I have some smaller p. afra plants but it will be 10-20 years before they'd be ready to chop.
What's a good resource to find local P. Afra in my area? I live in San Francisco and I see there are lots of Bonsai clubs and Succulent clubs, but none of them have a message board as far as I can tell.
I can see now that Leatherback was trying to be helpful by pointing out the downsides of using this species as a bonsai. His comments are easy to take the wrong way, since he didn't explain himself in those initial comments. They came off to me as a challenge rather than helpful. Later posts cleared that up.
I'll keep the tree and continue to have fun with it, but maybe change my goals a bit based on what I've learned. I also plan on trying to find a good sized P.Afra so that I can bonsai it. I have some smaller p. afra plants but it will be 10-20 years before they'd be ready to chop.
What's a good resource to find local P. Afra in my area? I live in San Francisco and I see there are lots of Bonsai clubs and Succulent clubs, but none of them have a message board as far as I can tell.
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