How to Deal with Leggy Itoigawa Juniper

[AndyJ]

Hi Folks,

I’m after a bit of advice regards my Itoigawa Juniper. I bought it a couple of years ago and in my novice eye, I thought it was a reasonably nice little tree. Unfortunately, I’ve not been well the last year and a few of my trees have been neglected- not least this one. As a result it’s got a bit leggy with a lot of the foliage on the ends of the branches. I need to work out a plan of attack to bring it back under control.



My first thought is to just reduce all extensions from this year - is that all I should do this year?



You can see from the pictures that it’s pretty leggy with the growth out towards the ends of the branches. How do I bring this in? Can I cut this branch off, back to this shoot? Will the branch regrow from there?

 

[AndyJ]

 

[sorce]

I sure wouldn't cut all the runners off.

IMO.

That's what will continue dragging sap thru the branch the best.

Better to cut off the intermediate stuff between them and those close buds.

Sorce

 

[BunjaeKorea]

 

[misfit11]

Yes. Cut the growing tips between nodes. If you cut back somewhat hard, especially if the tree is healthy, you may get backbudding. Unfortunately, the buds most likely will pop at a crotch between branches or a crotch between a branch and the trunk. This is just what Junipers do. This might mean you need to rebuild a branch from the bud.
It may also revert back to juvenile foliage. If you cut back too hard you may lose that branch.

Obviously because it is a conifer you must leave green on the branch or it's a goner for sure!

Good luck and keep us posted with your results

 

[River's Edge]

Hi Folks,

I’m after a bit of advice regards my Itoigawa Juniper. I bought it a couple of years ago and in my novice eye, I thought it was a reasonably nice little tree. Unfortunately, I’ve not been well the last year and a few of my trees have been neglected- not least this one. As a result it’s got a bit leggy with a lot of the foliage on the ends of the branches. I need to work out a plan of attack to bring it back under control.

View attachment 258164View attachment 258165

My first thought is to just reduce all extensions from this year - is that all I should do this year?

View attachment 258167View attachment 258166

You can see from the pictures that it’s pretty leggy with the growth out towards the ends of the branches. How do I bring this in? Can I cut this branch off, back to this shoot? Will the branch regrow from there?

Lets talk basics!
1.Your tree developed this pattern over time because the proper maintenance techniques were not applied.
2. Although it is showing extensions at this time it is still weak with some juvenile foliage present.
3. I suggest you strengthen it with fertilizer for the fall and prepare to thin, wire and cutback in the late spring to foster bud back in the interior. The thinning and wiring will let the light in to encourage new growth.
4. Allow the interior buds to grow out for a year or two before cutting back so they can maintain the health of the branch instead of losing the branch.
5. Shimpaku need continual thinning and cutback in order to maintain a healthy foliage and design. Get someone in a local Bonsai society to show you how to thin properly and when it is safe to cut back by gauging the health of the tree and new interior foliage.

 

[misfit11]

Lets talk basics!
1.Your tree developed this pattern over time because the proper maintenance techniques were not applied.
2. Although it is showing extensions at this time it is still weak with some juvenile foliage present.
3. I suggest you strengthen it with fertilizer for the fall and prepare to thin, wire and cutback in the late spring to foster bud back in the interior. The thinning and wiring will let the light in to encourage new growth.
4. Allow the interior buds to grow out for a year or two before cutting back so they can maintain the health of the branch instead of losing the branch.
5. Shimpaku need continual thinning and cutback in order to maintain a healthy foliage and design. Get someone in a local Bonsai society to show you how to thin properly and when it is safe to cut back by gauging the health of the tree and new interior foliage.

I agree with this. The tree must be in good health before doing work. If you stress it before, you could lose the tree. Thanks for this caveat, River's Edge!

 

[AndyJ]

Thanks everyone.

Rivers what do you mean by “strengthen it with fertilizer for the fall and prepare to thin”? Do you mean switch to a high phosphate food? I’ve had Biogold on all year and then feed fish emulsion and seaweed alternately. Should I remove what’s left of the Biogold now and stop the fish and seaweed? And then do nothing until spring?

 

[Dav4]

Thanks everyone.

Rivers what do you mean by “strengthen it with fertilizer for the fall and prepare to thin”? Do you mean switch to a high phosphate food? I’ve had Biogold on all year and then feed fish emulsion and seaweed alternately. Should I remove what’s left of the Biogold now and stop the fish and seaweed? And then do nothing until spring?

The goal is to feed regularly with a balanced feed (biogold pellets replaced regularly and fish emulsion weekly should be enough) to strengthen it so that when you do thin it out and apply wire, it will respond with back budding. I feed mine into late October or even November, as long as the weather is not too cold. Also, it needs full sun to grow at its best.

 

[leatherback]

Were this mine, I would remove all the foliage growing down from branches. And then I would remove all the branches growing from crotches where you do not need them. This would open up the tree a lot. Then, I would cut the branches back to maybe half of the green. After that.. Sun, fertilizer and backbudding. This seems to work well on my itoigawas.

But then again.. I am not a juniper expert.

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks everyone.

Rivers what do you mean by “strengthen it with fertilizer for the fall and prepare to thin”? Do you mean switch to a high phosphate food? I’ve had Biogold on all year and then feed fish emulsion and seaweed alternately. Should I remove what’s left of the Biogold now and stop the fish and seaweed? And then do nothing until spring?

Your current program is fine, just continue longer into the season. I reccomend lower numbers and organic when possible. I typically use products with numbers below ten.

 

[River's Edge]

Were this mine, I would remove all the foliage growing down from branches. And then I would remove all the branches growing from crotches where you do not need them. This would open up the tree a lot. Then, I would cut the branches back to maybe half of the green. After that.. Sun, fertilizer and backbudding. This seems to work well on my itoigawas.

But then again.. I am not a juniper expert.

Removing the foliage from crotches is typical for refined branching, not reccomended when trying to chase back the foliage! It is often the best option to begin rebuilding a branch that has got too leggy. Removing the lower branches growing down is also good for refined look, not when the chasing back the foliage. The goal is to get as much strength before cut back so the response of backbudding is stronger rather than weaker from reducing the foliage. My response is specific to the process suggested for this fall in preparation for later next spring.
There is always the alternate method preferred by someone else! I base all my techniques on maintaining the highest level of vigor prior to application of a technique that weakens the tree and triggers a certain response. The theory is that disrupting the energy and hormones in a bigger way at the preferred time usually elicits a stronger response.

 

[leatherback]

Sure. Then it is just me. But I do not see a tree that needs major work getting the foliage back. IOt is not overly leggy when you look at where the green is.

I remain at: Thin it out, clean it up and wire it out. Next year, trim it back to the new branches.

 

[bwaynef]

Removing the lower branches growing down is also good for refined look, not when the chasing back the foliage. The goal is to get as much strength before cut back so the response of backbudding is stronger rather than weaker from reducing the foliage.

I've noticed a net gain in strength/vigor when removing foliage that's hanging below the branch. I'd also remove the first 1/8-1/4" of foliage in crotches (that you're not ultimately planning to reduce back to) for similar reasons. The loss of foliage (that's weak or in a poor location to soak up all those photons and convert them) forces ...or at least encourages the tree to replace it with higher quality foliage. That's usually in the form of, or leading towards, runners.

 

[River's Edge]

I've noticed a net gain in strength/vigor when removing foliage that's hanging below the branch. I'd also remove the first 1/8-1/4" of foliage in crotches (that you're not ultimately planning to reduce back to) for similar reasons. The loss of foliage (that's weak or in a poor location to soak up all those photons and convert them) forces ...or at least encourages the tree to replace it with higher quality foliage. That's usually in the form of, or leading towards, runners.

I understand the reasoning and it seems rational From an observational point of view. Actually i said the same thing about retaining the foliage in the crotches if needed for cutting back to as the whole goal was to correct leggy foliage. The other reason it has value to retain crotch growth even temporarily is that it is new healthy foliage in the interior replacing weaker foliage on the exterior. This results in healthier interior branches while you are working the tree.
I can also agree that removing very weak foliage is a good step. It takes some of the tree's energy to support very weak foliage or drop old foliage. Just because it is hanging down does not mean it is weak. On the contrary it could be reaching the light more advantageously and outshining congested areas. So i would not just remove all hanging down foliage unless for aesthetic and refinement reasons.
The strength of junipers is in their growing tips, I would not remove healthy growing tips closer in to the interior when chasing back foliage. I would likely wire up hanging down healthy stuff temporarily to give it a further growing advantage while it was still needed.
The key being to not weaken the tree more than necessary.

 

[leatherback]

The key being to not weaken the tree more than necessary.

It is beyond me why you think this tree is weak. It is full of runners, indicative of a strong healthy tree. Perfect time for trimming and wiring.

 

[River's Edge]

It is beyond me why you think this tree is weak. It is full of runners, indicative of a strong healthy tree. Perfect time for trimming and wiring.

When i expanded the pictures i noted quite a bit of juvenile foliage, particularily within the interior! That was the basis for my comment. I agree the runners show good extension at this time! Not sure how this is beyond you when i clearly stated the reasoning in point #2. Post #6.
And that is ok if you wish to disagree, there is always a difference in how much work will be recommended or completed by bonsai enthusiasts!

 

[AndyJ]

Hey folks. I’ve read and reread this post a few times while I try and work out what I should be doing!! Couple of different opinions here and I’m nervous about doing something wrong.

Hopefully you can give me a thumbs up to say what I’m planning will / might be ok!

2019
1) Move tree to full sun
2) Continue plan of leaving Biogold in place and bi-weekly supplements of fish emulsion and seaweed until late September (I live in NW England and it starts getting cold by then)
3) Start applying Phosphate until end of November
4) Temporarily wire shoots up to face the sun (should I try and create pads at this stage?)
5) Cut off all juvenile spiky foliage

2020
6) In late spring, reduce all this year’s foliage by cutting back this years runners, plus another 50%. Leave interior growth coming from crotches
7) Wire all remaining growth to start forming pads
8) Feed well for the rest of the year

2021
9) Rinse and repeat above
10) If backbudding has occurred in the interior in 2020, select strong areas in interior and remove outer, weaker shoots

Will this program work?

Thanks all,

Andy

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

1-3 yes.
4-5 no.
6 yes.
7 wait til fall.
8 yes.
9-10 wait and see.

Doesn’t look weak to me, but Itoigawa are a little reluctant to back-bud, so careful pruning is important.

 

[AndyJ]

Thanks Brian.

Re. (5) What happens with the spiky juvenile foliage? Does it kind of turn into nature foliage after a couple of years? Or do I just cut it off at a later date?

Thanks again

Andy