BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
good quote. my dad taught me how to fish in my teens, but now kids could learn how on youtube.
How does one "employ" a master stylist to help take your trees to the "next level".
- Thread starter Mayank
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leatherback
The Treedeemer
As someone working at a university I am baffled at your position that teachers are of no added value over youtube.
Lazylightningny
Masterpiece
One of the gents who answered your question, @Owen Reich , just so happens to be one of the premier bonsai pros in the US. He and Bjorn both apprenticed together for the same master in Japan. Contact him to see when he might swing by your area. He's based out of the southeast.
Owen are you in GA or TN now?
Owen are you in GA or TN now?
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
you dont need a teacher to do good bonsai, plain and simple.
a teacher isnt necessary in the the bonsai world, pretty sure i said that already, i stand by it.
a teacher isnt necessary in the the bonsai world, pretty sure i said that already, i stand by it.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
i guess 'good bonsai' and taking your trees to the next level could be seen as two different things, ok then. you dont need to hire a teacher to take your trees to the next level either.
if you have the money for that, and you want to do it, feel free but lets not try to paint up as being a serious requirement. i think its highly overrated in regards to bonsai practice.
it might have been a major requirement before the internet
if you have the money for that, and you want to do it, feel free but lets not try to paint up as being a serious requirement. i think its highly overrated in regards to bonsai practice.
it might have been a major requirement before the internet
D
Deleted member 32750
Guest
I would say it depends on the subject matter and the course. Some curriculums in university now are straight out of the textbook and you can either ace the class by just reading the textbook or by watching YouTube videos. Other classes are taught straight out of the teachers brain and you will fail if you do not attend and pay close attention and ask questions. I’ve seen both sides of that equation in school.
I would say becoming extremely proficient in bonsai is more of the later analogy. You can learn a lot of the subject matter from books or YouTube but if you want to truly shine then I think learning from someone who has devoted their life to it is invaluable
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Now, according to ‘Psychology Today’ creativity cannot be taught. In 2011 they wrote, you can teach everyone how to use a hammer or knitting needles.
But knowing how to use a hammer or a knitting needle doesn’t make you creative. Visualizing, dimensionally manipulating or modeling the chairs you build in your mind’s eye won’t necessarily make you creative either. Whether material or mental, these tools just provide the techniques and materials that make creative outcomes possible.
Creativity is a large part of taking your trees to the next level or producing good bonsai.
Ryan recently said on one of his streams, creativity cannot be taught.
it can be 'learnt' though.
theres a reason why we still see folks after 15 to 30 years in the game not being able to construct an image from a virtual, a drawing or a tree they saw in the landscape. they just go through the motions a clip here and a clip there. but the tree still looks like how it was purchase many years ago. having a teacher wont make them more creative.
But knowing how to use a hammer or a knitting needle doesn’t make you creative. Visualizing, dimensionally manipulating or modeling the chairs you build in your mind’s eye won’t necessarily make you creative either. Whether material or mental, these tools just provide the techniques and materials that make creative outcomes possible.
Creativity is a large part of taking your trees to the next level or producing good bonsai.
Ryan recently said on one of his streams, creativity cannot be taught.
it can be 'learnt' though.
theres a reason why we still see folks after 15 to 30 years in the game not being able to construct an image from a virtual, a drawing or a tree they saw in the landscape. they just go through the motions a clip here and a clip there. but the tree still looks like how it was purchase many years ago. having a teacher wont make them more creative.
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D
Deleted member 32750
Guest
Bonsai is an emergent art form meaning that the art emerges from the techniques applied to the material. When you study with a master you learn the techniques that create beautiful bonsai and you also learn the timing of executing these techniques. “Creativity” is probably only 10% of bonsai. But that’s just my 2 cents.
I believe you do get more creative with more knowledge .
Knowing what is possible opens up possibilities.
and watching Good trees, demos, YouTube and even this forum helps a lot indeed, all free.
but this takes time, and trial. If you want to improve your own tree quickly and by doing so also learn something, hiring a pro to work on your tree is a good way to kill 2 birds.
but offcourse some people will always think that if someone else touches your tree you aren’t doing bonsai yourself anymore. Completely ridiculous in my opinion.
its Also about fun and seeing your tree improve is fun, also when important work was done by someone else.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
If you have access then sure why not, if you can work with a master who's trees youre inspired by then sure its a very good supplement or addition to your arsenal. but not the be all end all.
i think creativity is much more than you think, because so many struggle to see the wood from the trees. picking up a piece of raw material from a nursery or the landscape is not a straightforward outcome, some creativity is required to turn it into something special. something that speaks to the mind. you dont take a tree from a nursery and turn it into something you saw in the landscape by having 10% of creativity, hope you understand
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
for sure. and studying wild trees too opens up the mind massively. very underrated. most only look at other bonsai trees.
if you want to improve your trees quickly you start with healthy trees, good trunks and bases, then you can apply methods quickly, swiftly.
i would hate for someone to touch my tree, i want to take all the credit. ive never took a tree to a carving class because of this. ive butchered many trees by trying to do it all myself, but thats the real way to learn. ill quote Ryan again, you dont get good at bonsai by being afraid to kill your trees.
You quote Ryan a lot. You DO realize that he went to Japan, and studied under Kimura for seven years, right?
Do you think Ryan would have been as good as he is if he had not spent those seven years working under Kimura?
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Sure Adair, i realise that.
I have a lot of respect for the way he does bonsai, because although he studied in Japan. he doesnt shove it down everyones throats. you can log into to one of his streams whether it be a Beech, a Tilia, a Hornbeam or a Field maple and he wont even mention anything about what he learnt in Japan. he will endeavour to style the tree how it would look in its natural habitat or how it would naturally grow. he wont paint every tree with the same brush, for that reason he's someone i can take something from, i can relate. im not a conifer fan, but the spruces look very natural to me. some of the junis and pines have a wild look, a couple of the scots pines he's worked on look the part too.
Adair, im pretty certain Kimura didnt teach Ryan how to style a Tilia to look like a Tilia?
The Beech forest creation, which is free on youtube btw is another very natural representation of how the species would grow and look in the wild.
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Taking all the credit... from which point would that be then?
I like this tree of yours https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/cork-bark-chinese-elm.37673/
to which degree can you take all the credit for this and does it even matter,
That said, I hope you don’t carve the shit out of it though
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Thats a nice tree, it wasnt a keeper though, i only bought it from my local nursery because i knew i could make a profit on it. if id have kept it, it wouldnt have been one for carving, but i might have reduced that top section to two where it has three. even just having it in my hands for a few days and looking at it, i think i could make something like it in the future with the right starting material. thats an imported Chinese elm, but not the typical mallsai
Japonicus
Imperial Masterpiece
One of these days I'll get down your way and try your patience...
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Maybe. I would have expected that universities worth their salt all work with challenge/problem based learning techniques.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Subscribe to Mirai live AND use library liberally. In person one must be of a mind to be subserviant to the Master or walk out in anger or humiliation. Not many in todays modern first world have such humility.
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Starfox
Masterpiece
Well if the last year has taught us anything it's that a large portion of the world can operate, work and learn from home all with the comfort of not wearing pants. Some people complete their entire schooling online and that was well before the 'rona hit.
Bonsai is no different or particularly special that it requires in person training, not that it's a bad thing. Each person is different, we all learn in different ways and some prefer one way or another. At the end of the day the one thing in common whether it be in person or online is having a good/competent teacher in the first place.
Honestly if I was asking the same question on how to take the tree to the next level my first port of call would be the website of an artist that you admire or works with the material you have and look to see if they offer something like this....
www.treemakers.net
Many do and those that don't are missing a trick. It's certainly going to be one way to keep people afloat the next year or two and I have no doubt you and your trees would be better off for it.
Bonsai is no different or particularly special that it requires in person training, not that it's a bad thing. Each person is different, we all learn in different ways and some prefer one way or another. At the end of the day the one thing in common whether it be in person or online is having a good/competent teacher in the first place.
Honestly if I was asking the same question on how to take the tree to the next level my first port of call would be the website of an artist that you admire or works with the material you have and look to see if they offer something like this....
Online Bonsai Study — Tree Makers - Making Australian Bonsai
Online private Bonsai tuition.
www.treemakers.net
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