Help with pot change

[Hawke84]

Hi all,
I've lost my confidence with picking pots at the moment! I've ended up with a few the wrong size when ordering remotely vs going to shows.
I think the current pot for this Deshojo is a little on the small size to my eye but I'd like some opinions. Tree is 50cm, pot is 33cm at its widest, but im wondering if to keep the same depth and go 3-4cm wider?
sorry the tree is little a little scruffy at the moment!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

To my eye, the size of the pot is "just fine" or good enough.

Does the tree need watering more than once or twice a day? If yes, the pot is too small, or your media does not hold enough water.
Did the tree have a reasonable amount of growth this summer? If No, then the pot is too small.

Visually you could go wider and more shallow pot. I would not go wider and deeper unless you were having trouble keeping up with watering.

 

[jaco94]

Very nice set, 3 or 4 cm wider would be a good idea in my opinion.
I will see the tree slightly off-center to the right of the pot because it has a discreet movement to the left.
In oval or rectangular pots the visual rendering is often more pleasant when the tree is not centered, it gives a little movement to the whole.
Is this an Erin pottery pot?

 

[Hawke84]

its struggled this year, it was quite a lot of roots removed in spring so not sure if its just throwing a sulk for a year or its actually struggling but its got wire on it from this time last year that hanst bitten in. its put leaves out then stopped so warning sign to me hence considering pots again. watering has been fine.

other thing is im debating redoing the top portion... one problem at a time

 

[Hawke84]

Very nice set, 3 or 4 cm wider would be a good idea in my opinion.
I will see the tree slightly off-center to the right of the pot because it has a discreet movement to the left.
In oval or rectangular pots the visual rendering is often more pleasant when the tree is not centered, it gives a little movement to the whole.
Is this an Erin pottery pot?

it is Erin, i wanted to move it more off centre but i was stressing about the root removal, it was a lot, so went with that for now

 

[Hawke84]

eyeing something like this
https://www.bruno-auvinet.fr/poterie-bonsai/pot-539/
or
https://www.bruno-auvinet.fr/poterie-bonsai/pot-502/ <-- but smaller

 

[Sae Nguyen]

Small pots look great. Larger ones look great to the tree.

 

[jaco94]

it is Erin, i wanted to move it more off centre but i was stressing about the root removal, it was a lot, so went with that for now

You are absolutely right, the health of the tree first.
Moreover the movement of the tree is not easy to determine so the centered position is good .

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

If by "struggle" you mean it dried out too quickly, then it does need a new pot.

If by "struggle" you mean it stayed moist, but simply did not grow much, it is probably still trying to recover from your spring root removal. In which case I would NOT repot again in spring of 2021. Repotting too often can lead to decline. Try to go at least 2 years between repotting, or longer.

 

[Hawke84]

If by "struggle" you mean it dried out too quickly, then it does need a new pot.

If by "struggle" you mean it stayed moist, but simply did not grow much, it is probably still trying to recover from your spring root removal. In which case I would NOT repot again in spring of 2021. Repotting too often can lead to decline. Try to go at least 2 years between repotting, or longer.

just slow. if i was to do any kind of a repot it would just be to lift it into a slightly wider pot and no touch anything.
I guess 2 issues in my mind
1) is the pot too small horticulturally
2) id the pot too small visually for aesthetics for the future

number 1 is my main concern but if i can lift it into a nice pot and it sits in that for the next 5 years 2 birds 1 stone.
root work done for reference

 

[Trueblackpercula]

To new to provide any real assistance but your tree is amazing.

Michael

 

[Hawke84]

To new to provide any real assistance but your tree is amazing.

Michael

All opinions are welcome we are all learning.

 

[Trueblackpercula]

If it were mine I would definitely go bigger. I would also try and replicate this pot and color as I think the combination is stunning. But just a little deeper.

Michael

 

[sorce]

My first thought was, twice as wide wouldn't suck.

Then I looked more at the tree, especially after you talked about redoing the top. With all those heavy knots up top, I would definitely get it down to around what seems to be 30cm in height.

Top work or not, I think your branches, besides forking a bit late, have the "meat" of their leaves too far out. I feel like each should/could be shortened by half.

It also seems as if top vigour is going to ruin your branch proportions (thick low to thin high) soon.

You have many new little branches that could be grown as new branching, so I wouldn't be afraid to hit the whole thing hard to keep your branch thicknesses in proper order.

Then if your current branching doesn't respond well, or in fact get too large, you can swap over to the newer small branches.

I like the 40cm pot best. The 37cm better for color.
But I feel your tree isn't in a state, final enough, to consider a final pot too hard.

Sorce

 

[Hawke84]

My first thought was, twice as wide wouldn't suck.

Then I looked more at the tree, especially after you talked about redoing the top. With all those heavy knots up top, I would definitely get it down to around what seems to be 30cm in height.

Top work or not, I think your branches, besides forking a bit late, have the "meat" of their leaves too far out. I feel like each should/could be shortened by half.

It also seems as if top vigour is going to ruin your branch proportions (thick low to thin high) soon.

You have many new little branches that could be grown as new branching, so I wouldn't be afraid to hit the whole thing hard to keep your branch thicknesses in proper order.

Then if your current branching doesn't respond well, or in fact get too large, you can swap over to the newer small branches.

I like the 40cm pot best. The 37cm better for color.
But I feel your tree isn't in a state, final enough, to consider a final pot too hard.

Sorce

Thanks @sorce good advice as always. its been in free growth this year after repot but yes there is work to be done on the branching, the lower right branch will likely go at some point. its crossed my mind to put it in a wood box but i do want to get some enjoyment out of it. A nice pot is always fun.

one thing you said struck me:
"It also seems as if top vigour is going to ruin your branch proportions (thick low to thin high) soon."
I hadnt considered this. to be honest i think this was a nice tree in development and someone got lazy up top. its crossed my mind to air layer the top off before for some nobbly shohin material.
I guess i need to actually pick a direction with this tree, if im keeping it constrained in a small pot im going to struggle to get enough vigor to rebuild the top any time soon. hmm what to do...

 

[BobbyLane]

the pot looks about right for the tree but the soil does look a bit mounded. Look at the difference with Walters there is no mounding. takes a few mistakes and sometimes buying the wrong size pots before you start to get it right. i have a few pots i will never use because they werent good fits for any tree i had. i think looking at someone like WP'S tree pot combos will set you on the right path visually. Harry's harringtons blog also has really good tree to pot info, it takes a few reads to really get it i think and a bit of trial and error.

Choosing the Right Pot for your Bonsai

Large Website located in the UK, Bonsai4me offers Bonsai Art, Species guides for Bonsai trees, Bonsai galleries and Bonsai Techniques.

bonsai4me.com

 

[Hawke84]

the pot looks about right for the tree but the soil does look a bit mounded. Look at the difference with Walters there is no mounding. takes a few mistakes and sometimes buying the wrong size pots before you start to get it right. i have a few pots i will never use because they werent good fits for any tree i had. i think looking at someone like WP'S tree pot combos will set you on the right path visually. Harry's harringtons blog also has really good tree to pot info, it takes a few reads to really get it i think and a bit of trial and error.

Choosing the Right Pot for your Bonsai

Large Website located in the UK, Bonsai4me offers Bonsai Art, Species guides for Bonsai trees, Bonsai galleries and Bonsai Techniques.

bonsai4me.com

cheers bobby, Harry is not far from me and i was due to get some help with a pine until last nights announcement.
for me the colour of the pot clashes with the green the leaves of a deshojo goes. I do have a shelf full of pots developing

 

[BobbyLane]

ok now im confused, first your dilemma was the pot size and now its the colour

 

[Hawke84]

ok now im confused, first your dilemma was the pot size and now its the colour

haha dont i've lost all confidence with trees the past few months!
I'm a massive fan of Bruno Auvinet's work , the patina on the blues is lovely

 

[BobbyLane]

haha dont i've lost all confidence with trees the past few months!
I'm a massive fan of Bruno Auvinet's work , the patina on the blues is lovely

im not familiar. i think when matching up pot colours and trees, ,maples in particular, Walter has 100s of images that can be used as a guide, i think he often gets the match ups right usually. my 2 cents