Help Needed To Revitalize This Tree

[Ja_De]

I NEED ANY AND ALL HELP!!!
Maryland's Eastern Shore, Temperate 7b, A bonsai beginner for over 25 years.

This one has me beat... at least it's got me scratching my head.
Common juniper, about 3 feet tall when I first saw it. Growing in a run off/ flood drain, no rain for about a month prior to city crews chopping the tree down to about 10 inches tall. A few days maybe a week later, with a spade I cut a circle with the tree as the center point, 15 inch radius, 6 inches deep.

Tree had a disk of fibrous roots 3 to 4 inches thick, 30 inches in diameter, 5-6 inches below ground. There were some roots about the size of my little finger that had to be snipped when the tree was dug up.

I perforated the bottom of a plastic dish pan. Usually I like an inch of "aquarium gravel" in the bottom of a tree container but none was available so pine mulch mixed with sand was used. I used sand from the actual site and my prime focus was to disturb the root mass as little. I didn't tease out the roots at all and the root mass held its shape for the most part and so I pretty much just "dropped" it into it's new container home. There was no cutting of any vertically oriented roots because there weren't any. I back filled the tree and watered it well assuring good root to soil contact and water quickly ran out from the bottom of the container. I thought all was good.

Days later I pruned off a few limbs and wired two limbs upwards to establish new leaders. These were about a big 1/16th in diameter and put forth hardly any resistance. This being done all there was to do was let the tree be. Some moss was laid out to help retain moisture due to the tree being planted in mostly sand. The tree was placed against the east wall of the house and received full sun from about 830am until noon. So the tree was spared of full sun during the hottest hours ( typically ) of the day.

The tree seemed to be doing well for the first few weeks. Now about 5-6 weeks after being brought home the tree looks poorly. The needles are yellowing and have lost the pokey, needle-like rigidity inherent to junipers. They are soft and pliable. There is no dropping of the foliage. The sandy soil seems be in a pot with no or very poor drainage. Today I pulled the tree up to inspect the roots. No musty, dank odor. They weren't dry as the soil was very moist. I was encouraged to find a few earth worms winding their way in the roots as I've always read that this was a good sign; indicating that the ground was not too saturated due to worms having to breathe. But still the tree seems be struggling.

Tomorrow I will repot the tree in soil with greater capability
( moreso than sand ) to drain. I was considering mixing the existing sand with pine mulch and Miracle Grow, I use MG because of its high nutrient content and I've had good results. I've considered mixing sand and coarse gritty stone and the pine bark. My gut says the tree is too wet based on the evidence of my eyes. What has rendered good results for me previously, seems in this case to be counterproductive.

Does anyone have some suggestions as to possible courses of action to remedy and save this tree? I forgot to mention that last week I poked several holes about two inches from the container bottom on the two long sides of the pot to promote drainage/aeration. I realize that the tree being chopped prior to transplanting was most likely a double whammy but it needed to be moved due what the city had planned. Ideally I'd say after being chopped by 2/3rds leaving it be until Spring was the thing to do but alas...

I know this post is lengthy but I've tried to recount what has happened with the tree accurately and completely. So thanks for having read this far. I welcome any and all ideas
that could possibly save this tree.

 

[Gabler]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you did just about everything wrong. This tree is likely a goner, and it may already be dead. My advice is to look at this as a learning experience and try to improve for the next tree. Don't be discouraged. I've made all the same mistakes. Most of us have.

Firstly, as an Eastern Shore resident myself, I collect trees only in March, before the trees have begun growing for the season, but after the harshest winter weather has passed. As anyone here would tell you, timing is a key part of bonsai. It's not just about what you do, but what time of year you do it.

Secondly, your soil sucks. I killed a lot of trees using a similar mix (recommended by books) before I discovered the wonders of pumice (or perlite as a budget alternative). About half of the dead trees I've seen are a result of poor soil. I put collected conifers in 100% pumice (without intentionally removing field soil from the interior of the root ball), and I put deciduous trees in a mix with four parts perlite and one part coconut husk. In either case, I dress the top with a layer of granular diatomaceous earth for the added weight to secure the roots better.

The other half of the dead trees I've seen are the result of doing too much work too soon. I've killed lots of trees by being impatient. When I collect a tree, for example, I now know to wait at least two years before I begin to train it. Some trees need three or more years. For conifers, the general rule of thumb is one major insult per year. Disturbing the roots, pruning major branches, and primary branch wiring all count as major insults.

 

[Gabler]

For what it's worth, I've never had much success nursing sick trees back to health. I'm mostly competent at keeping trees healthy, but once they start going downhill, I don't hold out hope they can be saved. Perhaps someone with more experience could offer some tips and tricks to save a dying juniper.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Stop playing with it. Dont repot it, instead adjust your watering to reduce the likelyhood of being overwatered. In Spring you can repot into a better mix but consider leaving another year to recover with modified and appropriate watering... If you collected this 5-6weeks ago, Id be worried about disturbing any new root growth and considering how much foliage had been removed, it may take a year or two to fully be back to health.

What you have is an Eastern Red Cedar or Juniperus Virginiana. I have found them to be tough. The only difficulty I have found with them is related to rust.

 

[Ja_De]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you did just about everything wrong. This tree is likely a goner, and it may already be dead. My advice is to look at this as a learning experience and try to improve for the next tree. Don't be discouraged. I've made all the same mistakes. Most of us have.

Firstly, as an Eastern Shore resident myself, I collect trees only in March, before the trees have begun growing for the season, but after the harshest winter weather has passed. As anyone here would tell you, timing is a key part of bonsai. It's not just about what you do, but what time of year you do it.

Secondly, your soil sucks. I killed a lot of trees using a similar mix (recommended by books) before I discovered the wonders of pumice (or perlite as a budget alternative). About half of the dead trees I've seen are a result of poor soil. I put collected conifers in 100% pumice (without intentionally removing field soil from the interior of the root ball), and I put deciduous trees in a mix with four parts perlite and one part coconut husk. In either case, I dress the top with a layer of granular diatomaceous earth for the added weight to secure the roots better.

The other half of the dead trees I've seen are the result of doing too much work too soon. I've killed lots of trees by being impatient. When I collect a tree, for example, I now know to wait at least two years before I begin to train it. Some trees need three or more years. For conifers, the general rule of thumb is one major insult per year. Disturbing the roots, pruning major branches, and primary branch wiring all count as major insults.

Thanks for the reply. As for the soil, initially I used what the tree had been growing in and had been well established and doing well in. My thought process was minimal root mass disturbance and drop it into a container would be the least invasive. Since the tree had just been chopped with a chainsaw by 2/3rds I didn't want to stress it needlessly. The area was sprayed with herbicide, to be seeded to grass so waiting until Spring was not an option. My plan was when it had recovered from collection to get the tree into a better soil and a large grow box to serve as it's home for a season or three. That's still the plan.

Is there a "Hail Mary" I could try to keep it going?

 

[Ja_De]

Stop playing with it. Dont repot it, instead adjust your watering to reduce the likelyhood of being overwatered. In Spring you can repot into a better mix but consider leaving another year to recover with modified and appropriate watering... If you collected this 5-6weeks ago, Id be worried about disturbing any new root growth and considering how much foliage had been removed, it may take a year or two to fully be back to health.

What you have is an Eastern Red Cedar or Juniperus Virginiana. I have found them to be tough. The only difficulty I have found with them is related to rust

Orion? A Metallica fan maybe? Thanks for the reply. Leave it as is? Maybe I should, make sure the drain holes are clear, peel the moss off. Maybe increase time in direct sunlight to help dry it out? I'm really surprised at the water retention.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

This time of year as trees go into dormancy their water needs drop off precipitously and water doesnt evaporate as fast due to lower temps/less sun.

I water my junipers every two or three days now and they are in a mixed soil of compost, perlite and gravel. They get watered once a day during the summer, so they are using about 1/3 of the water now.

Yes, Metallica... username Ive had since I was like... 13?.. its been 24 years of usage. Lol.

 

[Ja_De]

Stop playing with it. Dont repot it, instead adjust your watering to reduce the likelyhood of being overwatered. In Spring you can repot into a better mix but consider leaving another year to recover with modified and appropriate watering... If you collected this 5-6weeks ago, Id be worried about disturbing any new root growth and considering how much foliage had been removed, it may take a year or two to fully be back to health.

What you have is an Eastern Red Cedar or Juniperus Virginiana. I have found them to be tough. The only difficulty I have found with them is related to rust.

Is it safe to assume that in MD. any "juniper" other than the low, sprawling ground covering varieties or any that don't seem to be wild/naturally occurring are in fact ERCs?

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Here on the eaat coast, I would say that if its upright and wasnt planted as a landscapd specimen it is probably 98% ERC. Here in NJ, I cant think of a single non-ERC that Ive ever seen in the wild. Landscape specimens are usually low groundcover versions of horizontalis or shrubby chinensis varieties. Those make good bonsai, ERC is temperamental. Only a few good ones out there. Vancehanna has the best one on this site but he seems to be a wizard with difficult species... Ill try to find a link for you.

Edit (Found it): Thread 'ERC after seasonal growth & clean up' https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/erc-after-seasonal-growth-clean-up.52137/

 

[Ja_De]

This time of year as trees go into dormancy their water needs drop off precipitously and water doesnt evaporate as fast due to lower temps/less sun.

I water my junipers every two or three days now and they are in a mixed soil of compost, perlite and gravel. They get watered once a day during the summer, so they are using about 1/3 of the water now.

Yes, Metallica... username Ive had since I was

like... 13?.. its been 24 years of usage. Lol.

That's something that's got me wondering... It's been much lower as far as rainfall lately and the tree seems much wetter than it should be. I haven't watered the tree in 3 days and it has a canopy over it to restrict dew from forming in it in the mornings.

 

[nuttiest]

You can always get some cardboard and put it on the sides/ bottom, keep replacing until it dries out to the point you are comfortable with excess water.

 

[BonsaiManic]

If the area was sprayed with herbicide before you collected it, then it could be suffering from that, yes? If so, recovery is unlikely. It may have not known it was already dead when you collected it.

 

[Ja_De]

Here on the eaat coast, I would say that if its upright and wasnt planted as a landscapd specimen it is probably 98% ERC. Here in NJ, I cant think of a single non-ERC that Ive ever seen in the wild. Landscape specimens are usually low groundcover versions of horizontalis or shrubby chinensis varieties. Those make good bonsai, ERC is temperamental. Only a few good ones out there. Vancehanna has the best one on this site but he seems to be a wizard with difficult species... Ill try to find a link for you.

Edit (Found it): Thread 'ERC after seasonal growth & clean up' https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/erc-after-seasonal-growth-clean-up.52137/

Amazing tree. Thanks for the link. Really something.

I wonder if that which is perceived to be "wizardry" is actually the ability to keep hands off it. Which I have a hard time doing at times.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

No, its wizardry... He also has an amazing native Pinus Strobus... another species very difficult to work with.

 

[Ja_De]

If the area was sprayed with herbicide before you collected it, then it could be suffering from that, yes? If so, recovery is unlikely. It may have not known it was already dead when you collected it

No the area had not been sprayed until after collection. So its not the effects of herbicide. Thanks for the reply though.

 

[Ja_De]

You can always get some cardboard and put it on the sides/ bottom, keep replacing until it dries out to the point you are comfortable with excess water.

Thanks

 

[BonsaiManic]

No the area had not been sprayed until after collection. So its not the effects of herbicide. Thanks for the reply though.

That's encouraging. I hope you don't lose it. As was stated, ERC are pretty resilient. Wishing you the best possible results.

 

[leatherback]

stop messing with it. Leave it alone. Make sure it is not in drying winds and mist the foliage regularly with rainwater if available. Make sure the rootball is moist but never soaked. Wait.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

In the meantime I recommend looking over this resource

Introductory Soil Physics

Nov 2, 2016

Introduction to the physical properties of soils and substrates.

• markyscott
• aeration air-filled porosity drainage drainage layer growing medium porosity soil soil mix substrate water-holding capacity
• Articles

the bark, pine mulch and sand you're using are all about as far from aquarium gravel in terms of properties and water retention as you could get,

It's funny cos in horticulture, sand is used to aid drainage but the tiny particles are much more water retentive than larger particle bonsai substrate components

Collected junipers are kept on the dry side

Also the chop which likely made this tree appealing in the first place could have been its death sentence even had everything else been perfect,

Vigorous growing tips are usually left to fuel root growth.

This tree lost a fair amount of its top growth and its roots, the odds were always against it. But all is not lost if you at least learned a thing or two from your experience and this thread!

 

[Cazzabubbles]

I NEED ANY AND ALL HELP!!!
Maryland's Eastern Shore, Temperate 7b, A bonsai beginner for over 25 years.

This one has me beat... at least it's got me scratching my head.
Common juniper, about 3 feet tall when I first saw it. Growing in a run off/ flood drain, no rain for about a month prior to city crews chopping the tree down to about 10 inches tall. A few days maybe a week later, with a spade I cut a circle with the tree as the center point, 15 inch radius, 6 inches deep.

Tree had a disk of fibrous roots 3 to 4 inches thick, 30 inches in diameter, 5-6 inches below ground. There were some roots about the size of my little finger that had to be snipped when the tree was dug up.

I perforated the bottom of a plastic dish pan. Usually I like an inch of "aquarium gravel" in the bottom of a tree container but none was available so pine mulch mixed with sand was used. I used sand from the actual site and my prime focus was to disturb the root mass as little. I didn't tease out the roots at all and the root mass held its shape for the most part and so I pretty much just "dropped" it into it's new container home. There was no cutting of any vertically oriented roots because there weren't any. I back filled the tree and watered it well assuring good root to soil contact and water quickly ran out from the bottom of the container. I thought all was good.

Days later I pruned off a few limbs and wired two limbs upwards to establish new leaders. These were about a big 1/16th in diameter and put forth hardly any resistance. This being done all there was to do was let the tree be. Some moss was laid out to help retain moisture due to the tree being planted in mostly sand. The tree was placed against the east wall of the house and received full sun from about 830am until noon. So the tree was spared of full sun during the hottest hours ( typically ) of the day.

The tree seemed to be doing well for the first few weeks. Now about 5-6 weeks after being brought home the tree looks poorly. The needles are yellowing and have lost the pokey, needle-like rigidity inherent to junipers. They are soft and pliable. There is no dropping of the foliage. The sandy soil seems be in a pot with no or very poor drainage. Today I pulled the tree up to inspect the roots. No musty, dank odor. They weren't dry as the soil was very moist. I was encouraged to find a few earth worms winding their way in the roots as I've always read that this was a good sign; indicating that the ground was not too saturated due to worms having to breathe. But still the tree seems be struggling.

Tomorrow I will repot the tree in soil with greater capability
( moreso than sand ) to drain. I was considering mixing the existing sand with pine mulch and Miracle Grow, I use MG because of its high nutrient content and I've had good results. I've considered mixing sand and coarse gritty stone and the pine bark. My gut says the tree is too wet based on the evidence of my eyes. What has rendered good results for me previously, seems in this case to be counterproductive.

Does anyone have some suggestions as to possible courses of action to remedy and save this tree? I forgot to mention that last week I poked several holes about two inches from the container bottom on the two long sides of the pot to promote drainage/aeration. I realize that the tree being chopped prior to transplanting was most likely a double whammy but it needed to be moved due what the city had planned. Ideally I'd say after being chopped by 2/3rds leaving it be until Spring was the thing to do but alas...

I know this post is lengthy but I've tried to recount what has happened with the tree accurately and completely. So thanks for having read this far. I welcome any and all ideas
that could possibly save this tree.


I'm from Australia & also a total newbie to the bonsai scene but (along with others, I'd suggest ditching the sand from the site & (probably) plant into a pond basket for drainage & soil aeration
.. I've made the mistake of using "free" roadside/railway sand for succulent mix ... Turns out they often treat it with Cyanide (or similar) prior to using it here to kill off roadside weeds... & YOUR sand may have washed down from any source or the site may have been poisoned for the pending works

... Trouble with conifers is generally that if the foliage is cut back too hard (to older woody growth) the sap flow is also stopped as there's nothing to draw the sap . Sometimes they have may NEVER recover from the heavy pruning - as seen when old hedges cut back too hard

With this in mind you "might" consider grafting in some younger branchlets to keep the sap flowing ? ... OR - a totally RADICAL suggestion (if you're committed to the specimen) might be to provide "direct life support" & side graft branches to a healthier juniper for a while ... (Google tomato side graft & apply the idea to your tree - old roots / new shoots)
In this case you'd be splicing donor plant/s to yours & temporarily keeping BOTH/ ALL root systems till your tree has recovered
Plus (if it works) you'd be able to create a better trunk reduction & crown when you seperate from the donor/(life support) plant/s ...
... You did say "any & all suggestions" & this one's definately out of left field ... But maybe worth a thought all the same