Hackberry

[rockm]

Let me get this straight: When I wire, "You get smooth curves, even when you try "zig zag" wiring on them..." is not good, but when you wire, "you get an abrupt sharp shift in direction (that mellows as it ages)...". My softened curves are no good, but your softened curves are good. I gotta change my ways....

Dude, ...You seem to have some kind of martyr complex when it comes to this stuff. Your constant pinching and wiring to produce branches is mostly ineffective and inhibits development with any character in branching.

Here goes one more time--I CHOP THE BRANCH, SELECT A RESULTING NEW SHOOT THAT BACKBUDs FROM THAT CHOP. I RARELY WIRE ANYTHING ON THIS TREE --I DON'T USE WIRE TO SET THE MOVEMENT OF THE ENTIRE BRANCH. THAT IS FUTILE.

IF you actually look at the branch, instead of reading some kind of plot into this, you can see the chop progression, starting an inch or so from the trunk. At each shift in direction a chop was done--there are about six chops here. I used buds facing in the right-ish direction to grow out an continue the process.

 

[bonsaidave]

I have dug hackberry from cattle fields and the branching is pretty amazing from only cows constantly chewing off new growth.

I use a mix of wire and clip/grow on my hackberry trees. Also note that hackberry branches become very hard after only a month or two of growing. Only minor bending is possible without snapping branches.

Good luck!

 

[rockm]

I have dug hackberry from cattle fields and the branching is pretty amazing from only cows constantly chewing off new growth.

I use a mix of wire and clip/grow on my hackberry trees. Also note that hackberry branches become very hard after only a month or two of growing. Only minor bending is possible without snapping branches.

Good luck!

I have one that I collected in Dallas I'm currently growing in the ground here for bonsai. It is a weed, although our winters here kill off a lot of finer twigs every year. Tree doesn't seem to mind, and just regrows them in a week or so in May

 

[Forsoothe!]

Dude, ...You seem to have some kind of martyr complex when it comes to this stuff. Your constant pinching and wiring to produce branches is mostly ineffective and inhibits development with any character in branching.

Here goes one more time--I CHOP THE BRANCH, SELECT A RESULTING NEW SHOOT THAT BACKBUDs FROM THAT CHOP. I RARELY WIRE ANYTHING ON THIS TREE --I DON'T USE WIRE TO SET THE MOVEMENT OF THE ENTIRE BRANCH. THAT IS FUTILE.

IF you actually look at the branch, instead of reading some kind of plot into this, you can see the chop progression, starting an inch or so from the trunk. At each shift in direction a chop was done--there are about six chops here. I used buds facing in the right-ish direction to grow out an continue the process.

When you get released from the facility, I hope they give you a good supply of meds. You're reading too much in-between the words and are a little too sensitive. I'll try a little tenderness.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. And, people have different tastes! Some are good and some are bad, but there is no one, single standard of good taste. It's a lot like shoe sizes: what's really good to one can be really bad to another. I know that some people aren't very good with wire. They don't do it very well and get crappy results. I teach beginners to wire and ignore its appearance in the beginning, I tell them they will improve over time. Some day, you may improve your skills and then, you might change your tune, -and the quality of your trees. Both of them.

 

[Forsoothe!]

View attachment 243702

So for me this is a classic example of a tree that hasn't been maintained properly. The tree has no foliage in close and has long leggy branching with no interior ramification. It has been allowed to go back to a shrub with a high outer canopy of leaves and no shape. This tree needs massive cutbacks at this point to build taper and ramification. The whole section in red is just long branching with no taper and only ramified at the last 3". Also the top is creating a big swelling where too many branches are coming from the same spot. This tree isn't being handled as a bonsai clearly.

Would you chop this tree?

 

[rockm]

When you get released from the facility, I hope they give you a good supply of meds. You're reading too much in-between the words and are a little too sensitive. I'll try a little tenderness.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. And, people have different tastes! Some are good and some are bad, but there is no one, single standard of good taste. It's a lot like shoe sizes: what's really good to one can be really bad to another. I know that some people aren't very good with wire. They don't do it very well and get crappy results. I teach beginners to wire and ignore its appearance in the beginning, I tell them they will improve over time. Some day, you may improve your skills and then, you might change your tune, -and the quality of your trees. Both of them.

Oy...There is indeed more that one way to skin a cat, some are more effective than others. There is also "meh" branching...not really taste...

 

[Forsoothe!]

What is "meh"?

 

[rockm]

What is "meh"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meh

 

[Forsoothe!]

OK, my Fig is meh. Show me muy excellente!

 

[Anthony]

@Forsoothe! ,

tree has moved into the grow 10 leaves, then cut back to 2 or 1.
Probably another 5 or 6 years.
Thanks for asking.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Forsoothe!]

@Forsoothe! ,

tree has moved into the grow 10 leaves, then cut back to 2 or 1.
Probably another 5 or 6 years.
Thanks for asking.
Good Day
Anthony

I'm missing something. It has been in training since 1980?

 

[rockm]

OK, my Fig is meh. Show me muy excellente!

I don't have muy excellente, but most people with any experience working with deciduous trees will say the same as me. Wiring branches doesn't produce really good character in them as the cut back/grow out approach...

 

[Anthony]

@Forsoothe! ,

No, the mother was, she died in 1990's and a root
survived.
Started over the training
The colander image [ camera ] says 2013.

There are at least 300 efforts here, and as the space for
trunk growing goes, it is as the space is available.

Also more time was spent healing the wound.
Good Day
Anthony

1 of the 3 mothers - never ground grown.
Shown on IBC 2008

 

[rockm]

View attachment 243716
Would you chop this tree?

Southern Live oak are repeatedly broken, and busted to regrow again after hurricanes. Oak is also prone to attract lightning strike which also kill off branches and explode portion of their trunk. In other words, nature does the chopping over centuries...

 

[choppychoppy]

View attachment 243716
Would you chop this tree?

How is this applicable in any way? Is it a 26" bonsai with no interior foliage? Then yes i would cut it back? If it was a potted tree that was over 500yrs old maybe not. This tree is not 'pretty' at all so if was a bonsai it would look like shit. It is impressive because of its age and size not because it has good bonsai characteristics. Bonsai is not replicating trees exactly as they are formed naturally.For me and with the trees I've seen you post regardless of any knowledge level, I don't think you are actually putting a whole lot of bonsai skills into proper practice on any actual tree at all.

 

[Anthony]

@Forsoothe! ,

here is the mother that died.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[choppychoppy]

the deadwood of the trunk which is striking and beautiful. Everything else is a frame for that. The branches are being held about where I want them to frame the tree

This would be properly 'framing' the deadwood. All of your growth is way above the tree's base and deadwood I don't see that as a framing.

 

[Forsoothe!]

View attachment 243751

This would be properly 'framing' the deadwood. All of your growth is way above the tree's base and deadwood I don't see that as a framing.

OK, show me muy excellente!

 

[Forsoothe!]

View attachment 243751

This would be properly 'framing' the deadwood. All of your growth is way above the tree's base and deadwood I don't see that as a framing.

Not my cup of tea...

 

[choppychoppy]

Not my cup of tea...

Actually doing good bonsai or doing proper maintenance to continue good trees is what 'isn't your cup of tea'. The real facts are you are too lazy or have too many BS excuses or use the #1 cop-out garbage line in bonsai 'I like it like that'. Which ALL translate to I can't do it or I'm too inept. You're not making good trees. You are ruining material.