Fretting about overwatering - a myth nowadays

[Clicio]

I think she is living in cold winter area, it is why she has to bring it indoor.

Which leads me to a bigger question:
Should we be trying to take trees from one region to another completely different environment?
I have this experience here.
JWP are impossible to live here because they need at least 45 days of lower temperatures in the winter. So what people do? Store then in big fridges, slowly taking the temperature and light levels down until they are dormant. Then two months later, the opposite. A LOT of work, and even doing all that... Most die in the long run.
So I don't even try.
I know the feeling, when bonsai folks from the north want to grow BRTs, Pitangas, Jaboticabas, it's the same story. It is possible, but it means a lot of work and some broken hearts.

 

[Clicio]

Just trying to show how a beginner might feel that it is better to be on the safe (dry) side.

Exactly.
And the lore keeps going on...
Underwatering kills bonsai.
Overwatering, most of the times, don't.

 

[sorce]

result: i see fungus gnats if i water everyday so now i water every other day and they’re gone, im considering going all inorganic next spring so i can water everyday without worrying about overwatering, maybe crushed LECA, pumice, lava.

Forgive me, but this is the kind of thing that led us to believe overwatering is a thing in the first place.

You're watering for the fungus gnats to not have a home.

You are not watering your tree for what IT needs.

Water for tree needs, not human needs.

Sorce

 

[Clicio]

Here in the far noth, we do get these periods of hovering around frost, rain every day for several hours.

So what do you do?
You just don't water them until you see the top of the soil dry. They don't need that water when dormant anyway.
As people say it's a matter of common sense and horticultural skills.

 

[Clicio]

You're watering for the fungus gnats to not have a home.
You are not watering your tree for what IT needs

EXACTLY!
I was beginning to say the same when I saw your post, @sorce.

 

[Clicio]

Me, too. I've damaged trees by letting them get too dry many times, but "too wet" is only a problem in the greenhouse when the plants are dormant and cold.

This.
I have killed NZTeatrees in a matter of hours, I mean 5 or 6 hours dryish and they are dead. Absolutely dead. NO wilting, no browning of the leaves, no warnings whatsoever.
Dead.
Underwatered.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Pick & choose the right species for the kind of care you habitually give. I have 3 figs, 2 Sansevieria and Coffee arabica as houseplants in pots without drainage holes that get watered every time I see the Coffee droop, about 6 or 7 days, year-around. They all do great, and for years. I have many figs in the greenhouse that I water almost everyday in winter. They also do great even though the temps vary from 45 to 90°F over the whole winter. I have many other species in the greenhouse that barely live through winter that I try to keep a little drier. It is always a fight and some don't make it. I get rid of some that do badly because either they or I cannot adapt. The major problem in winter, for me in my situation has been the wild swings in sunlight and concurrent warmth of sunlight. The tropicals are sort of always ready to bud out when conditions improve, but they don't improve for long. The cloudy weather comes back and a week of no sun to speak of makes them lose their leaves. Trying to water when they're growing and not water as much when they shut down is difficult to calibrate.

This year I'm going to dry everything out and keep it dry, except a few that do well in cooler winter conditions, like citrus. We shall see what happens.

 

[YAN]

Forgive me, but this is the kind of thing that led us to believe overwatering is a thing in the first place.

You're watering for the fungus gnats to not have a home.

You are not watering your tree for what IT needs.

Water for tree needs, not human needs.

Sorce

Thanks for the reply, never thought about that, absolutely right I turned up watering to solve problems when I should water for the health of tree.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Over watering is can't happen if there is enough air. Then it's just watering.
Over watering can't happen if the soil is free draining.
Then it's just watering.


Over watering can happen if conditions aren't ideal.
Over watering can be problematic if the organisms in that water attack the tree.

To fall into the category of 'over watering' there have to be issues. Otherwise it's just watering, a lot or a little..

 

[sorce]

Thanks for the reply, never thought about that, absolutely right I turned up watering to solve problems when I should water for the health of tree.

I realized now you are the one with that quote!
I been wanting to show you these threads!

Watering BS

Soggy soggy Wet wet Leaving you to fret fret. Inchy inchy Dry Poke a chopstick in your eye. Moist Moist Moist. Now that's not even a Soil! So tired of this I am.... Fittin to wrap my head in foil! ---- Can we quit this Bullshit? "Water when the first half inch of soil is dry." -but what...

www.bonsainut.com

What A Terrible Extended Retreat.

Water For Real. Resorce I went away for a week recently. For the first time in a long time, had a great vacation. Didn't worry about my trees cuz I tucked them all under this... Cheaper versions of these products...plastic not brass blah..under about $80 w/ batteries. Set for 25 minutes at...

www.bonsainut.com

Water like a MF and it will put out the brain fire!

Sorce

 

[Anthony]

Just to be naughty Clicio.

Indoor Oak [ was Nicodemia diversifolia ]
Sub - tropical - can handle English unheated rooms [ 1800's ]
age - maybe more than 8 years,

Flower scent - Heavenly/

Soil
35 parts 3 mm silica based quartz
35 parts 3 mm crushed red brick
30 aged compost

Watered twice in the morning
Once in the evening after 4.30 p.m, but before 6 p.m.

Idea is based on water retention in a shallow pot,
and the ball bearing principle [ freely draining ]

Placement - full sun

 

[Clicio]

Just to be naughty Clicio.
Flower scent - Heavenly/

I like this line very much!
My Ume is heavenly scented also!
But the fish emulsion...
is HEAVILY scented!

Soil
35 parts 3 mm silica based quartz
35 parts 3 mm crushed red brick
30 aged compost

Watered twice in the morning
Once in the evening after 4.30 p.m, but before 6 p.m.

Yes, I like your soil mix, simple and efficient.
We use crushed bricks around here also.
And yes, we like to water a lot, like you.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@Clicio this thread demonstrates how important local climate is when discussing bonsai. Your experience in the tropics, of Brazil, makes it difficult for you to appreciate the long, dull cool to cold winter seasons our Northern members have. Some of our members live far enough north that the sun is above the horizon for only 6 or so hours a day in winter. The same northern growers have nice 18 hour long days in Summer.

And by the same token, "us northerners" or extreme southerners in the case of New Zealand, we have a hard time appreciating the nuances of a tropical climate, where the seasons are not determined by day-length, but rather determined by wet seasons, and dry seasons.

And we all like to grow what is exotic to our location

Which results in "Climate Zone Envy".

 

[Clicio]

Your experience in the tropics, of Brazil, makes it difficult for you to appreciate the long, dull cool to cold winter seasons our Northern members have.
Some of our members live far enough north that the sun is above the horizon for only 6 or so hours a day in winter.

@Leo in N E Illinois I am aware of it.
Which amazes me, people are tenacious and manage to grow BRTs and Tamarinds up over there, the far north.
And we manage to grow Maples and Pines in the tropical heat.
But I guess this thread will make some people see that NOTHING that is taken as a dogma in bonsai is the absolute truth.
We have dry winters and wet summers, mostly like Honshu in Japan. But we are not a group of islands. We have not the typhoons every year. We don't have high mountains near the coast.
We are NOT Japan or any other place like Florida, Taiwan, Hawaii or Costa Rica.
So we have to find our truth.
And water in Brazil doesn't kill trees.

 

[leatherback]

Some of our members live far enough north that the sun is above the horizon for only 6 or so hours a day in winter. The same northern growers have nice 18 hour long days in Summer.

I know @Clicio loves a view into this part of the world, which he misses out on.. Wanna be miserable most of the year, come to 52 degrees north.

Ahaus Climate, Weather By Month, Average Temperature (North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany) - Weather Spark

In Ahaus, the summers are comfortable and partly cloudy and the winters are long, very cold, windy, and mostly cloudy. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 32°F to 73°F and is rarely below 19°F or above 85°F.

weatherspark.com

 

[Clicio]

I know @Clicio loves a view into this part of the world, which he misses out on..
Wanna be miserable most of the year, come to 52 degrees north.

OOHHHH, STOP IT!
I will cry!

HOW can you live and be happy if most of the time the weather is so miserable?
I am serious, this can lead a sane man to a very heavy depression.
Yes, I like cold weather and snow, but I like the sun and blue skies also.

 

[Kadebe]

I know @Clicio loves a view into this part of the world, which he misses out on.. Wanna be miserable most of the year, come to 52 degrees north.

Ahaus Climate, Weather By Month, Average Temperature (North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany) - Weather Spark

In Ahaus, the summers are comfortable and partly cloudy and the winters are long, very cold, windy, and mostly cloudy. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 32°F to 73°F and is rarely below 19°F or above 85°F.

weatherspark.com

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Well, about the same as where I live. https://weatherspark.com/y/49637/Average-Weather-in-Tielt-Belgium-Year-Round
Thought you lived more north in the Bremen hamburg region

 

[Vali]

OOHHHH, STOP IT!
I will cry!

HOW can you live and be happy if most of the time the weather is so miserable?
I am serious, this can lead a sane man to a very heavy depression.
Yes, I like cold weather and snow, but I like the sun and blue skies also.

Weather is not all that matters. Winter can give you good times too. You just have to try and find a way to enjoy all the seasons.

 

[YAN]

History of bonsai goes back to 700 AD that’s 1320 years of watering bonsai and still looking for an answer.

what if humans occupy MARS, we’ll srat over?

 

[leatherback]

HOW can you live and be happy if most of the time the weather is so miserable?

I have 5 options
Beer, Whiskey, Rum, Tequile, Cachaca