Ebihara nebari musings

[leatherback]

maybe you have higher aspirations, but in re to the beech in the oval pot that is exceptional radial nebari. im not a fan of the plated ones.

I am not thinking pancake nebari either.
Just less long roots and more branching.

 

[Davidlpf]

i think the roots are pretty realistic to how Beech roots would look in the wild.

maybe or maybe not

Mother nature is extraordinary.

Cheers

 

[Canada Bonsai]

I have officially hired a professional translator and bonsai professional in Japan to translate the 11-page Kinbon article (May 2001). I am surprised that this had not been done yet.

When discussing Ebihara's nebari-development method people tend to focus on technique and procedure with--it seems to me--very different understandings of what his objectives were. I am hoping the article will shed some light on Mr. Ebihara's objectives, in addition to providing biographical information and new insights about his techniques.

I am looking into publication permissions and publication outlets (I don't have either at the moment!). At the very least, I'll summarize the article here in my own words.

Latest update:

Bonsai Focus owns the "exclusive worldwide copyrights of Kinbon magazine", as they put it.

In order for me to be allowed to share this article, they are asking for €150 per page. This would only give me permission to casually share the article. They explicitly noted that this would not give me permission to have the article published elsewhere. They have no interest in publishing the article themselves (I offered the translation to them).

It's hard to gauge how much interest there really is in this article. One idea that came to mind is starting something like a GoFundMe campaign where anybody who donates $X will be a sent a copy of the PDF if we meet the funding objective. Of course, once the article is released in the wild it can be freely shared among friends and colleagues, so it's hard to say how many people would be willing to throw 10, 15, or 20 bucks at this to help raise the funds to gain this permission.

 

[leatherback]

In order for me to be allowed to share this article, they are asking for €150 per page. This would only give me permission to casually share the article. They explicitly noted that this would not give me permission to have the article published elsewhere. They have no interest in publishing the article themselves (I offered the translation to them).

sorry, but this is just stupid.
Them making money on the right of an article, which they do not intent to publish themselves?It is similar to domain name hijacking; should be a ban on this. Yuck.

The 150.. Is that per original page, or translated transscript?

 

[leatherback]

At the very least, I'll summarize the article here in my own words

I think this would be great. Maybe summarize in 10 pages or so

(in the end, the interest is in knowing why it was developed, and the details about the process. I think that in 11 pages, there is a lot of fluff

 

[Canada Bonsai]

sorry, but this is just stupid.
Them making money on the right of an article, which they do not intent to publish themselves?It is similar to domain name hijacking; should be a ban on this. Yuck.

The 150.. Is that per original page, or translated transscript?

It was definitely hard to write that post without giving my opinion!

I understand that they paid to own those rights, so I respect that there is some monetary value that can be assigned to a given article. That's the world we live in, and whether that needs to change is a separate and ongoing conversation whose course won't be altered by our little bonsai article . But the process by which the value of an individual page or article is calculated is of course complex. The calculation was not revealed to me, but from what I understand giving an individual permission to share an article 'casually', as it were, is not part of their ordinary business model.

edit: the price is per page of the original Kinbon article LOL

 

[ConorDash]

Latest update:

Bonsai Focus owns the "exclusive worldwide copyrights of Kinbon magazine", as they put it.

In order for me to be allowed to share this article, they are asking for €150 per page. This would only give me permission to casually share the article. They explicitly noted that this would not give me permission to have the article published elsewhere. They have no interest in publishing the article themselves (I offered the translation to them).

It's hard to gauge how much interest there really is in this article. One idea that came to mind is starting something like a GoFundMe campaign where anybody who donates $X will be a sent a copy of the PDF if we meet the funding objective. Of course, once the article is released in the wild it can be freely shared among friends and colleagues, so it's hard to say how many people would be willing to throw 10, 15, or 20 bucks at this to help raise the funds to gain this permission.

And people wonder why its hard to spread the hobby further.

That's a joke. Hope it doesn't stunt your motivation and interest in trying to spread information about the hobby.

 

[Adair M]

It was definitely hard to write that post without giving my opinion!

I understand that they paid to own those rights, so I respect that there is some monetary value that can be assigned to a given article. That's the world we live in, and whether that needs to change is a separate and ongoing conversation whose course won't be altered by our little bonsai article . But the process by which the value of an individual page or article is calculated is of course complex. The calculation was not revealed to me, but from what I understand giving an individual permission to share an article 'casually', as it were, is not part of their ordinary business model.

edit: the price is per page of the original Kinbon article LOL

You might want to contact @Wm. N. Valavanis, at International Bonsai. He has republished translations of Japanese Magazine articles for decades. I’m sure he has experience with the procedures required to make it happen.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

You might want to contact @Wm. N. Valavanis, at International Bonsai. He has republished translations of Japanese Magazine articles for decades. I’m sure he has experience with the procedures required to make it happen.

Thanks Adair!

I spoke with Mr. Valavanis. Unfortunately, Bonsai Focus owns the rights to Kinbon in all languages except Chinese and Japanese. There's no way around that.

There is also no sum of money that Bonsai Focus is willing to accept in exchange for permission to reprint anything from Kinbon into any other commercial outlet, which includes magazines, websites, and even blogs or youtube channels...

The chief editor's email address is not private information and is easy to find online, so i suppose there is no harm in sharing it here in case anybody feels like they might be able to change his mind with a plea, or with gentle and kinds words of persuasion: editor@bonsaifocus.com

 

[leatherback]

It was definitely hard to write that post without giving my opinion!

I can imagine! I am also happy I managed to keep my opinions on it to myself

 

[ConorDash]

I can imagine! I am also happy I managed to keep my opinions on it to myself

I didn't .

I don't usually reply to this stuff. Its for better people than myself to comment on but I do like to share my opinion from time to time .

 

[JoeR]

i think the roots are pretty realistic to how Beech roots would look in the wild.
could it be more 'perfect' as in cut back in places, sure why not. impressive none the less.

This is a perfect example of different artistic tastes in bonsai. The beech nebari is much more realistic, naturalistic, whereas the others are more dramatic, 'perfect'. I dont see ebihara style nebari on trees in NC, I see the beech style.

I think for one thing, people need to start taking note of the unique characteristics each tree presents, and should strive to enhance these qualities instead of forcing an idealized 'cookie cutter' approach to their bonsai. Sure, everyone wants an ebihari style bonsai on their bench- but not every tree on your bench should be constrained to this style.

 

[Adair M]

This is a perfect example of different artistic tastes in bonsai. The beech nebari is much more realistic, naturalistic, whereas the others are more dramatic, 'perfect'. I dont see ebihara style nebari on trees in NC, I see the beech style.

I think for one thing, people need to start taking note of the unique characteristics each tree presents, and should strive to enhance these qualities instead of forcing an idealized 'cookie cutter' approach to their bonsai. Sure, everyone wants an ebihari style bonsai on their bench- but not every tree on your bench should be constrained to this style.

Joe, I think the complaint was NOT that the roots were not grown into the “dinner plate” style, it’s just that they were long, taperless, and “leggy”. Yes, they are radial, but there are no (or few) secondary roots coming off the primary roots. It looks like he started with long skinny roots, and splayed them out on a board. But never cut them back. Good rootage is developed in the same way as branches: grow out, and cut back. I see no evidence of cutting back.

 

[JoeR]

Joe, I think the complaint was NOT that the roots were not grown into the “dinner plate” style, it’s just that they were long, taperless, and “leggy”. Yes, they are radial, but there are no (or few) secondary roots coming off the primary roots. It looks like he started with long skinny roots, and splayed them out on a board. But never cut them back. Good rootage is developed in the same way as branches: grow out, and cut back. I see no evidence of cutting back.

Right, and I agree with your analysis. When I refer to the ebihara style I mean exactly that- even, radial roots ramifying as the roots progress to the soil like we do for branches. Point was, the majority of trees around most of the continental US do not display visible roots like the ebihara style. So if an artist were to make the conscious choice to NOT grow the symmetric, radial nebari that most of us strive for, they are simply creating a much different feeling and perspective. Both can be exceptional, but the latter is much more difficult to create tastefully.

 

[keri-wms]

Ebihara’s method/s are covered or at least referred to in some detail in Meriggioli’s maple book, not sure if there’s any difference between that info and what’s in the 11 Kinbon pages though as I’m unable to compare them :/

 

[keri-wms]

This was actually a surface root off a bigger tree which was cut the year before, the rootlets happened to grow evenly and it developed a sucker.....so I took the hint that it wanted to be it’s own tree!

 

[Davidlpf]

So what I have tried.. Two nails; Two roots. Hold them together. Then wire around to keep the roots in place.

View attachment 346577

And well, Did it work?

 

[Deleted member 47471]

maybe or maybe not

Mother nature is extraordinary.

Cheers

Love the song. Love the tree. Love it all! Wow

 

[leatherback]

And well, Did it work?

Good question. I just noticed how long ago this was. I did not really work this rootball I think since last posting. Too many projects and I forget to keep track of them every once in a while. I will repot this season and hope I did not pull it off the board in a repot frenzy last year. I may have.

 

[leatherback]

And well, Did it work?

Found it..
I did a video (of course, I should have known). Anyhoe.. THe video is out for a bit, you might have seen it.
I DID create a very flat condensed rootball. Whether the sorting brought much.. I did not remove enough roots during the repot to be certain.

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