Double flushing mugo?

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I have 4 mugo's. All have been treated differently, but 3 of them are giving a second flush.
With second flush, I mean there was a spring flush (buds from winter), these buds became candles (spring-summer), candles were cut before the needles hardened and thus before they became shoots (start of, or a few weeks into summer).
Now, the new buds are either forming and growing at the same time, or at the point at which they extend, instead of going dormant.

Is this normal behavior for mugo's?


Repotted and wired in spring. Shoot/candle was cut at the end of June. This one is a graft, so I'm fine with it behaving differently. The ones below are a Mughus and Pumillo that both respond the same weird way.




Repotted in early June, did some mayor work. This is on top of this years growth. I know, needlecast. Working on that.


Repotted in spring, candles/shoots cut in early June this year. Extending buds now, a month and a bit later.


Same plant as the one above, another branch, this time with skipping the bud phase and going directly for needles.


All plants are being fertilized heavily and watered on a regular basis. No hormones used this time. No other weird things. It's just remarkable that their behavior is 1) not as expected for a single flush species and 2) so universal across types and treatments.
Number 4 isn't showing the same response yet, maybe because it was cut from a pumillo clump to become it's own tree this spring, or maybe because it's just a bit later.

Could it be the stable weather? Is anyone else reporting this?
Will the new buds set in time before winter (3-4 months from now) or will I have to expect serious dieback?

 

[Nicholas Box]

Waiting for Vance to weigh in, but pines that are particularly vigorous can definitely experience a second flush of growth. Hasn't happened with my mugos, but not surprising if you're heavily fertilizing and they are healthy.

 

[sorce]

so universal across types and treatments.

This is tell of stress responses for me.
No rhyme and reason to action and reaction.

Likely due to the early candle cutting.

It is not the right time to cut, for this very reason.... Unpredictably.

Future Vision Goggles only work if our moves make predictable results.

Sorce

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Thanks for the replies!
I'll try the same trick next year, the early cutting, to see if it yields the same result.
I'm not against double flushes, not at all. But if that takes a toll on the long term, I should prevent it.

What makes it weird is that the most stressed plant doesn't double flush. It was literally chopped off of another mugo this spring.

Not all of them were treated equally stressfull. The only universal and equal treatment was the early candle cutting.

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks for the replies!
I'll try the same trick next year, the early cutting, to see if it yields the same result.
I'm not against double flushes, not at all. But if that takes a toll on the long term, I should prevent it.

What makes it weird is that the most stressed plant doesn't double flush. It was literally chopped off of another mugo this spring.

Not all of them were treated equally stressfull. The only universal and equal treatment was the early candle cutting.

The Mugo's in our landscape regularily have second flush when decandled . I guess they have never read the memo or bonsai manuals. They are planted in full sun, sandy, gravelly soil with regular watering. Fertilizer annually. I only have one Mugo for bonsai and it also responds with a second flush when decandled. It is planted in a colandar in a grow bed for development.
I would use the same approach and determine the condition of the plant before decandling. We have planted over thirty Mugo's on the property to suit our hot dry summer climate and well draining soils. There are several varieties and all seem to respond the same way to pruning techniques. We planted them as 1/2 gallon plants in 2008. With regular pruning we have manged to keep them under three feet tall and reasonable shapes.
I believe several types of pines that are considered single flush will actually produce multi flush under the right conditions. It is possible that many attempts have been restricted to bonsai in smaller sized containers and less fertilizer due to the historical methods of creating bonsai. With the conditions restricted the health and vigour of the plant becomes a controlling factor.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

They are all in a fairly sized pot. Some of my scots pines have double flushed as well.
Maybe I'm just treating them right. We'll know next year for sure!

Just for the record: I keep mixing up shoots and candles in this thread. The shoots were cut, the candles were left alone until they were shoots.

The least stressed plant shows the most result, the largest effect: a complete, true flush. The more stressed plants either skip the bud set phase, or flush irregularly; localized. I don't know what tell tale signs of stress are.. But there seems to be nothing out of the ordinary; no curled needles, no strechy growth.

 

[tree4me]

My 2 in pond baskets are doing the same. I pruned and wired earlier this summer, week after fathers day i believe.

 

[Soldano666]

Same here. Definetly looks like candles extending on mine

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

My 2 in pond baskets are doing the same. I pruned and wired earlier this summer, week after fathers day i believe.

Did you prune a lot? A little? Somewhere in between?

Same here. Definetly looks like candles extending on mine

It does look like what's happening here. Did you do any pruning, or were you hard on them, soldano?

I want to see if we can rule out stress factors and stress responses, so maybe we can understand these mugos a little better.
Maybe develop a kind of "If:... then:.." kind of thing based on collective observations.

Right now, based on my own observations:
If stressed but healthy and candles cut early then flush second time in july.

If stressed and less healthy, and candles cut early, then skip bud phase, and second irregular flush in juli.

But I'd like to work it out if stress is a common necessary factor, or something that could be left out. Riversedge doesn't need the stress for double flushes in his landscape mugos, the most reactive pine here was the least stressed of the bunch, but still stressed.
How about you guys?

 

[M. Frary]

Scots do it too.

 

[tree4me]

Did you prune a lot? A little? Somewhere in between?

This one I pruned 45-50%. My second one 55_60 % and it's noticeably further behind.

 

[Soldano666]

Hammered about 40% of the foliage and did a repot at the same time

 

[0soyoung]

I have a mugo (unsure of the variety, but maybe 'pumilio') that flushes the new terminal bud formed on the tip of the spring shoot. That is, in spring, the overwintered terminal bud makes a new shoot, and sets a new terminal bud that flushes now (in July/Aug).

With other mugos, I have partially to totally (decandled ?) removed the year's new shoot in Aug/Sep. Budding occurs even on bare wood that becomes obvious when the buds push the next spring. I think (but didn't didn't make records and may be imagining things, instead) that the earlier I pruned the more likely it resulted in the release of fascicular buds that push in that same year. The later, the more likely to produce bare wood buds.

I'd like to work it out if stress is a common necessary factor, or something that could be left out.

I support this noble aspiration, but what is 'STRESS'?
An action that provokes the production of 1-aminocyclopropane-1-carboxylic acid (ACC) might be a good definition. This happens with root anoxia; this happens when wire 'bites in' on branches, as examples.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I was thinking more in senses of jasmonates or pinenes. Signals usually produced after physical injury in plants. Physical stress.


I have buds on bare wood on one of my mugos. It was wired in spring and it looks like sunlight on the wood plays large parts. That one was shoot-cut second. But there might be truth in the bare-wood budding when decapitation takes place later in the season. Most of my mugos budded at the tips only. But there's still time for buds to form lower down. Summer isn't over! 2-3 months to go.

Thanks all, for your observations and input. Keep 'em coming if you got 'em!