Conflicting info on repotting juniper?

[Paradox]

There is a difference between not being afraid to work on trees and doing something at the wrong time because of impatience or whatever reason you can dream up and risking the health of the tree.
We have seen countless people come here with a sick tree or a tree gifted to them, and want to save/keep it but it's too late and/or it dies. We hardly ever see those people come back and try again because losing that one was too discouraging.

The first thing you must learn in bonsai and the first thing it will teach you whether you like it or not is patience.

Of course you should work on trees and yes that IS the best way to learn but you DO NOT have to kill trees or risk killing trees to learn bonsai. Yes it happens along the way but I refuse to believe that it is an absolute requirement to learn. It's one thing to make a mistake due to lack of knowledge, it's another to do something just for the hell of it and see if the tree lives or dies.

I've been keeping bonsai for over 12 years now. I've made mistakes and lost my share of trees in that time. I've learned more from the ones that live then the ones that die.

People come to these forums looking fir information from experienced folks. I see no reason to not give someone the benefit of experience if I have the knowledge to give. After all that is one reason many of us are here. Unless you just enjoy purposely setting someone up for failure.

 

[Pigskin Pete]

So far, the tree is not showing any signs of shock or distress. I think I might be watching a few adult leaves emerge too, but not sure.

Anyways, it was a good learning experience for me. I didn't trim any roots at all, just raked the rootball out with my homemade fork tool and then did my best to settle it into its new home using the chopstick method. I was surprised that the tree was NOT rootbound. I could have left it in its pot til spring without worrying about it being rootbound. However, once i determined this was the case, it was too late to stop. So there's a lesson. I was able to get it out of the soil with drainage issues and put it in something a little better, basically half perlite half organic soil.

Remember that my purpose in starting this thread was to ask if there was in fact more than one potting window, or more specifically if fall was a better potting window for junipers than spring like that article on bonsai4me claims. I appreciate the vigorous and respectful debate yall have had.

And no worries, I enjoy just sitting and looking at my trees. If this one doesn't make it, I won't be giving up. I am attached to it though, so I tried to be careful and methodical and am watching it everyday, as I do all 4 of my little guys. Looking to beef my numbers up!

I am getting ready for my first winter as a bonsai guy, so I'm now doing some learning as to how to winterize my outdoor trees. Cheers!

 

[BrightsideB]

So far, the tree is not showing any signs of shock or distress. I think I might be watching a few adult leaves emerge too, but not sure.

Anyways, it was a good learning experience for me. I didn't trim any roots at all, just raked the rootball out with my homemade fork tool and then did my best to settle it into its new home using the chopstick method. I was surprised that the tree was NOT rootbound. I could have left it in its pot til spring without worrying about it being rootbound. However, once i determined this was the case, it was too late to stop. So there's a lesson. I was able to get it out of the soil with drainage issues and put it in something a little better, basically half perlite half organic soil.

Remember that my purpose in starting this thread was to ask if there was in fact more than one potting window, or more specifically if fall was a better potting window for junipers than spring like that article on bonsai4me claims. I appreciate the vigorous and respectful debate yall have had.

And no worries, I enjoy just sitting and looking at my trees. If this one doesn't make it, I won't be giving up. I am attached to it though, so I tried to be careful and methodical and am watching it everyday, as I do all 4 of my little guys. Looking to beef my numbers up!

I am getting ready for my first winter as a bonsai guy, so I'm now doing some learning as to how to winterize my outdoor trees. Cheers!

Add your hardiness zone because that really makes a difference with what you can and can’t grow and do with your tree’s.

 

[sorce]

For the specific timing question......

It is best practice to ensure the juniper has a lot of "runners", long bits of extremely vigorous healthy foliage. That is what's going to power new root growth, no matter when you decide to repot.

I reckon that and any waning moon time will be successful.

I agree with it didn't need moving, and with kill it.

Ground....meh....you can find something already way larger to dig before that gets as large, so grounding something, and adding the risk of trying to successfully dig it later is foolish IMO.

Find a hedgerow of old ones that need removing, go ham, give em hell ,and your odds go up exponentially.

There is ALWAYS a better, easier tree, than the one you try to grow....
The key is keeping your eye out for the opportunities.

Sorce

 

[Pigskin Pete]

I thought I added it to my little bio. Guess not.

Zone 7b.

 

[Cadillactaste]

So far, the tree is not showing any signs of shock or distress. I think I might be watching a few adult leaves emerge too, but not sure.

Anyways, it was a good learning experience for me. I didn't trim any roots at all, just raked the rootball out with my homemade fork tool and then did my best to settle it into its new home using the chopstick method. I was surprised that the tree was NOT rootbound. I could have left it in its pot til spring without worrying about it being rootbound. However, once i determined this was the case, it was too late to stop. So there's a lesson. I was able to get it out of the soil with drainage issues and put it in something a little better, basically half perlite half organic soil.

Remember that my purpose in starting this thread was to ask if there was in fact more than one potting window, or more specifically if fall was a better potting window for junipers than spring like that article on bonsai4me claims. I appreciate the vigorous and respectful debate yall have had.

And no worries, I enjoy just sitting and looking at my trees. If this one doesn't make it, I won't be giving up. I am attached to it though, so I tried to be careful and methodical and am watching it everyday, as I do all 4 of my little guys. Looking to beef my numbers up!

I am getting ready for my first winter as a bonsai guy, so I'm now doing some learning as to how to winterize my outdoor trees. Cheers!

Harry is also UK and a different climate than myself. If I didn't have a controlled cold greenhouse..his advice would be Russian roulette. Same seasons. I've spoken to Harry...he's a great guy and shares his knowledge freely. They also seen heavy loss this spring for trees across the pond. Horrendous amount of loss there on specimen trees. Their summer last year was Horrendous as was their winter. Double whammy trees could not recover.

 

[BobbyLane]

Climate and weather is becoming more unpredictable across the globe. Even our springs are erratic in recent years.

 

[Maiden69]

You don't need to kill trees to learn bonsai. It happens enough without purposely doing it by doing things at the wrong time.

The quote is below,

What are the 'rules'? 'The less you touch it, the greater the chance it survives, but how do you get good at bonsai? You get good at bonsai by killing bonsai' 'This is not something I promote, im not saying everyone should go out and kill their bonsai' 'But if you're too scared to try or too scared to experiment with this kind of material' Ryan neil

Ryan didn't mean to kill trees doing things at the wrong time, especially with "good" trees, he expressed that the best thing you could do is to experiment with cheaper material. like the one posted by the Op. You can learn by watching, but nothing is better than personal experience.

Also, there are a lot of ground breaking (new) things we are learning in bonsai that were normally reserved for elite/crazy people like Kimura and Ebihara. From Summer repotting where Walter was chastised for, fall repotting advised by Brent and others, to all the crazy stuff Ryan is doing now. All because it didn't fit the "traditional" method. If it isn't broken why fix it attitude.

I asked also about repotting or bending my kishu and shimpaku now and was advised by several members here to repot without disturbing too much the roots now and work on the tree next year. So I guess it is not the wrong time to do it.

 

[Japonicus]

It is best practice to ensure the juniper has a lot of "runners", long bits of extremely vigorous healthy foliage. That is what's going to power new root growth, no matter when you decide to repot.

Regardless of timing, most important to be very healthy going into root work.

 

[BobbyLane]

Potter, through experimentation, experience and a few dare I say 'dead trees' has established that spring isnt the best time for repotting his conifers in the UK. He has been successfully repotting them in summer. Maybe he's just 'impatient'?
why couldnt he just wait until spring? Well he explains why in the video. This is from a person who's been around a good while and has easily worked on or collected 100s if not thousands of trees.

I think its fair to say there isnt an 'out of season' repotting time anymore. There are varied times one can approach root work successfully throughout the season/seasons. To say there is only one window is outdated information, archaic even.

 

[BobbyLane]

Harry is also UK and a different climate than myself. If I didn't have a controlled cold greenhouse..his advice would be Russian roulette. Same seasons. I've spoken to Harry...he's a great guy and shares his knowledge freely. They also seen heavy loss this spring for trees across the pond. Horrendous amount of loss there on specimen trees. Their summer last year was Horrendous as was their winter. Double whammy trees could not recover.

You guys across the pond had some pretty horrific and unprecented weather too. There were loads of weather threads popping up on here bemoaning trees not getting a proper dormancy, warm weather when it should be cold, stuff like that. Weather is becoming more and more upredictable, which is another reason why repotting times shouldnt really be set in stone, not anymore. and Potter touches on this

 

[Cadillactaste]

You guys across the pond had some pretty horrific and unprecented weather too. There were loads of weather threads popping up on here bemoaning trees not getting a proper dormancy, warm weather when it should be cold, stuff like that. Weather is becoming more and more upredictable, which is another reason why repotting times shouldnt really be set in stone, not anymore. and Potter touches on this

True enough... I just seen a staggering more loss there. Though I don't visit here often. I also winter in a more controlled cold greenhouse. So it didn't effect me as much.

My circle of friends are more southern USA...or across the pond. With maybe...a handful or so in the northern parts dealing with dormant trees. So here... not saying it wasn't a valid thing. Just under my radar as I just recently came back to the forum.

 

[Paradox]

Potter, through experimentation, experience and a few dare I say 'dead trees' has established that spring isnt the best time for repotting his conifers in the UK. He has been successfully repotting them in summer. Maybe he's just 'impatient'?
why couldnt he just wait until spring? Well he explains why in the video. This is from a person who's been around a good while and has easily worked on or collected 100s if not thousands of trees.

I think its fair to say there isnt an 'out of season' repotting time anymore. There are varied times one can approach root work successfully throughout the season/seasons. To say there is only one window is outdated information, archaic even.

It probably depends like most things in bonsai.

UK summer is typically milder than many places in the US. I know the UK had anomalies this past summer with very high temperatures but it was atypical.

You do not want to repot in 100 deg F heat that we get in many areas of the US during summer.

I've repotted multiple of one species of pine during the summer here by recommendation of someone that lives in a different climate than me. Most of them died and it wasn't even that hot. It works for them but not for me and others that tried to do the same and killed their trees. None of the pines I've repotted in spring died because of it.

I have more pines of different species than anything else.

 

[snowman04]

Potter, through experimentation, experience and a few dare I say 'dead trees' has established that spring isnt the best time for repotting his conifers in the UK. He has been successfully repotting them in summer. Maybe he's just 'impatient'?
why couldnt he just wait until spring? Well he explains why in the video. This is from a person who's been around a good while and has easily worked on or collected 100s if not thousands of trees.

I think its fair to say there isnt an 'out of season' repotting time anymore. There are varied times one can approach root work successfully throughout the season/seasons. To say there is only one window is outdated information, archaic even.

Bloody Hell!! I Love Graham's videos and what he did with the repot on this tree!

 

[Pigskin Pete]

Here is an update on the tree. It seems to be doing well. I am seeing new buds and growth so I'm hopeful that the repot "took," so to speak.

What's funny is about two weeks after I repotted this tree, we had some work done by plumbers in the back yard. One of the plumbers knocked my tree over and didnt say anything. I walked upon it upended with roots out and everything. I quickly repotted it and gave it some TLC.

I figure if it were dead it would have shown it by now, about 5 months after the repot. Thoughts?

 

[Dav4]

Here is an update on the tree. It seems to be doing well. I am seeing new buds and growth so I'm hopeful that the repot "took," so to speak.

What's funny is about two weeks after I repotted this tree, we had some work done by plumbers in the back yard. One of the plumbers knocked my tree over and didnt say anything. I walked upon it upended with roots out and everything. I quickly repotted it and gave it some TLC.

I figure if it were dead it would have shown it by now, about 5 months after the repot. Thoughts?

I think it's not dead... yet!


JK... it looks like it's doing just fine .

 

[Pigskin Pete]

I will continue to experiment with Fall reports on junipers and see what results I get. I will say that out of all my junipers this one, the only one repotted last fall rather than this spring, shows the most growth so far. Too small a sample size to draw conclusions but enough to drive continued interest. More learning to do!

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Which trunk are you keeping for the composition? The one on the right looks promising.

 

[Pigskin Pete]

The plan right now is to develop both in a sort of yin-yang, lower-upper, left-right scheme and see what happens.

The right trunk does have more of a nice bend to it, but both are thin right now. I think this guy will sit for awhile....

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Fair enough, but maybe consider drawing one towards the other. There is a lot to be said about composition movement from base of trunk to the crown of the apex (a beginning and an end). With wide splits in either direction, there is no movement or direction in the composition. It rests somewhat incomplete. If trunks compliment one another, their apexes will unite and complete the composition

The plan right now is to develop both in a sort of yin-yang, lower-upper, left-right scheme and see what happens.

The right trunk does have more of a nice bend to it, but both are thin right now. I think this guy will sit for awhile....