concave cutters keep getting damaged!

[Eric Schrader]

I'm not saying you need a Masakuni. I'm saying you need a tool that is properly designed, properly built and properly sharpened. I don't have any Kaneshin tools, but given the rave reviews here and elsewhere I'll likely be giving them a try soon.

 

[sikadelic]

I bought some SS Tian tools last year and have been very pleased with them. They are labeled as master grade and start around about $50 per tool. I have never owned Masakuni or Kaneshin so I can't comment on the comparison but I wouldn't hesitate in ordering them again.

 

[Anthony]

Clevetromba,

you tend to run into that situation if you have collected trees, wild or nursery.
We grow from cuttings, seed or collected seedlings,
The grow troughs [ and Bonsai4me information ] allow for controlled, faster growth, or if the tree has a thick, agressive cambium, it can be thickened in a pot using branch extension.

Also my brother-in-law is an Italian trained Fine Artist [ think Da vInci or Titian or Raphael ] and trees are designed from the very beginning.
We have been growing trees for a long time and have enough around the yard to not have to fuss about trees to train.

Mind you in the early 80's he did break his first Masakuni concave [ the 6.5 " one ] on an olive branch, but Mr.Valavanis replaced it for free. They cost about 20 US $ back then.
No one told him about the twig to concave pruner bit, but the he was really green and didn't thin or know to ask.

He bought a 12.00 $ concave about two years ago to prove a point on IBC, they are still going strong.
Bonsai Today also has an article on how to sharpen and care for the tools made from easily rusted iron.

Apologies, can't answer the question, as it never came up, cuts heal better at a small size, and we have had enough experience with wounds not healing, and then the heartwood gets eaten out.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[clevetromba]

Anthony,
That makes sense, and I do recall the damage to my cutters happened on a 1/2"-5/8" privet branch from a bush collected from an old hedge. It was quite hard to cut through.

 

[rps]

masakuni developed (designed, invented) the first bonsai specific tools (ashinga shears and concave cutters), so it can fairly be said that they have been at it longer than anyone else. i own one pair of their concave cutters (a generous gift) and acknowledge they bring a certain "mojo" to the room. they are beyond good.

that said, kaneshin is an old and venerated sword house whose master craftspeople, although they came to bonsai tools (per se) later than masakuni, certainly know as much about steel as masakuni. they have since made it their business to understand and improve bonsai tools --- as can be seen with the detailed explanations of tool purpose, function, design and use on their website. AND their customer service is second to none.
the bulk of my tools were ordered directly from the kaneshin web-page and every time i pick one up i marvel at its "hand feel" and (most importantly) performance. as much as i cherish my lone masakuni (and its symbolic link to the legendary first pair of concave cutters), i wouldn't trade my kaneshin for anything.

you've probably figured out i rather like kaneshin tools --- i think you'll find a similar devotion in anyone who owns their wares. but as noted above (by a few others), no matter how good the tool, it needs to be used within manufacturer's recommendations. like a lot of enthusiasts, i prefer a saw or good quality garden shear (felco and the like) to deal with large branches (after which the wound can by cleaned up with a good carving knife). i've never really liked or understood those almost clownishly oversized concave cutters --- but, if someone wants to buy me a pair of the kaneshin no.5 cutters, i'd probably come around after a season. still, the blasted things weigh over a kilo.

 

[clevetromba]

Well, I successfully reshaped by cutters. I heated the jaws one at a time with a small oxy/acetylene rosebud torch, avoiding the sharp tip of the cutter so as not to overheat it. I then placed the hot jaw face down on the narrow end of a blowhorn stake and hammered it down. I alternated this procedure on each jaw until they appeared parallel when held up to the light. I did have to file down the back end of one jaw a little bit where it prevented the jaws from meeting in the middle. At some point I'll need to harden and temper the jaws to keep them sharp.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I

You know, I have a nice folding saw, but I'm reluctant to use it unless there are no other branches nearby. Several times I've slipped and cut into the bark on the trunk or another branch. Although my saw blade is 7" and the one on Amazon is 5", that might be a little more manageable.

I had that happen...so I took fabric and draped below branches I was cutting I would bind up on cloth before sawing tender branches below. But I was still careful. (Tied the cloth loosely on so it pulled the branches slightly down.)

 

[Skinnygoomba]

I have Kaneshin tools and I'm very happy with them as well. They give guidelines for what size cuts their tools are made to make.

Cleve, I think you'll find they do not hold an edge long at all if they're soft enough that you can file them. Unless you know what they are made of I think it very dangerous to try and quench them, using the incorrect medium can have disastrous results.

 

[Eric Group]

I am checking out their website and.. The Kaneshin tools look very affordable compared to Masakuni! $25-$100 depending on what you are buying for most the tools I looked at. Right in line with Yoshiashi and comparable tools... Reasonable pricing for what people are saying is very good quality! This is something I would buy (only one or two tools I am I t he market for over the next year or so...). Masakuni is WAY more expensive than these!

Anybody use the "American bonsai" tools much? I was on their site and there is a competition for this growing season!
http://www.americanbonsai.com/growing-season-comp_a/263.htm

Sounds kind of cool...

 

[clevetromba]

Cleve, I think you'll find they do not hold an edge long at all if they're soft enough that you can file them. Unless you know what they are made of I think it very dangerous to try and quench them, using the incorrect medium can have disastrous results.

Dangerous? Disastrous? I've quenched steel before in water and oil, and apart from a cloud of steam I can't imagine what would be dangerous or disastrous.

 

[Eric Group]

Dangerous? Disastrous? I've quenched steel before in water and oil, and apart from a cloud of steam I can't imagine what would be dangerous or disastrous.

He was talking about quenching the red hot steel in pure Nitro glycerin! Not to be tried... Saw Wile E Coyote do it once after the road runner switched out his bucket of water- ended badly for him!

 

[M. Frary]

I am checking out their website and.. The Kaneshin tools look very affordable compared to Masakuni! $25-$100 depending on what you are buying for most the tools I looked at. Right in line with Yoshiashi and comparable tools... Reasonable pricing for what people are saying is very good quality! This is something I would buy (only one or two tools I am I t he market for over the next year or so...). Masakuni is WAY more expensive than these!

Anybody use the "American bonsai" tools much? I was on their site and there is a competition for this growing season!
http://www.americanbonsai.com/growing-season-comp_a/263.htm

Sounds kind of cool...

Oooooo. Have a couple entrants for that I believe. It's going to be too late for me to pick something up for the BSC challenge here. No nurseries opened here yet. Well there are no nurseries here.

 

[Eric Group]

Oooooo. Have a couple entrants for that I believe. It's going to be too late for me to pick something up for the BSC challenge here. No nurseries opened here yet. Well there are no nurseries here.

Yeah... I just realized I prolly shouldn't have mentioned this here... I might coulda won myself a set of tools, now we might have some extra competition if the Bnutters get involved!

 

[M. Frary]

Yeah... I just realized I prolly shouldn't have mentioned this here... I might coulda won myself a set of tools, now we might have some extra competition if the Bnutters get involved!

I almost didn't reply for that fact but it wouldn't really be a competition then.I have 2 untouched parsons 1 shimpaku and a couple elms to enter.

 

[Eric Group]

Yeah, I have a couple- some have already been at least partially styled, but I have pics from where I bought them earlier this year, and between now and August, they will be pretty good looking trees hopefully.

 

[M. Frary]

I need to look at the rules again. We don't have to have receipts for when we acquired the material right? The way I read it they don't care as long as you show a raw piece of material and then what you did toward making it into a bonsai. The biggest and best change in said material is what they are looking for right.
On a side note. Last year I saw some big Amur maples at a nursery. Still need a maple for Smokes progressive maple challenge.
Maybe there will be a BSC this fall too. Hopefully.

 

[Skinnygoomba]

Dangerous? Disastrous? I've quenched steel before in water and oil, and apart from a cloud of steam I can't imagine what would be dangerous or disastrous.

Water is a faster quenching medium than oil, so certain steels do not react well to a faster quench.

 

[sorce]

oxy/acetylene

I knew the opportunity would arise.

Look at this. Anything wrong here!?

Ha ha

Sorce

 

[Bill S]

I have a copy of the book on order. Thanks for the recommendation.
One question though: How do you get a flush cut when removing a larger branch if you're only using concave cutters on twigs?

Gauges, chisles, and knives, the concave cutter is for raw cuts, sphericals too.

 

[Cypress187]

I could have written the above post. Exact same story here. Mine were cheeeeeeeep,..but still. So I used my dremel to grind them down and hammered the tip back straight. Fine now,..but I will invest in a good set.

I also dremeled mine because it wasn't cutting nice.