Chop it low or let it grow?

I cut a trident maple like at 10 inches, expecting a bud and then cutting lower... I think it will not come back...I don't know if the same might happen here, but take precautions.

I would like more info.... I never got a bud from my tree and tried to play it safer... It might be the species????

More info would be good (maybe in a separate thread)...like what does your chopping a trident have to do with chopping this cherry? When did you do it? Why cut it at 10" instead of low? What type of precautions are you proposing?

Best to chop during the growing season, as the tree is more inclined to keep growing. Too bad about the trident, it's hard to believe a healthy trident wouldn't bud back.
 
Brian, I chopped as buds started to swell.
I cut at 10 inches giving it more chance to bud and then chop it again close to that bud.
After your post I realized that cherries budback very well and throw suckers.

I wanted to take your advice by chopping low, but wanted a bud first.

I asked about the tree here: http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/trunk-chopping-101.14801/page-2#post-249961
and here: http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/ground-growing.14126/page-5

Basically got one reply from Giga, and I chopped at #2 of the second link.

It has not come back. I'm sorry the species might be the difference between this tread and mine, but from now on I think I will try to chop more conservatively and aggressively ones it back buds.
 
The photos don't offer enough for a good suggestion. Maybe a different angle/tilt/front can be found, but I'd try to utilize as much of the trunk as you can, maybe chopping at the point where it gets straightened out; just above where the bottom of the siding passes behind the trunk in the first photo.

Chinese quince don't heal wounds very well, and tend to swell around the cuts, so keep that in mind when you do chop. Keep the cut to the back, and angled so the bulge from callusing is minimized.
Here are some more photosimage.jpgimage.jpg image.jpg
 
Wow Drew.
That lil corkscrew is something!

I don't know how these grow, but I'd be attempting to get it to bud down there on the outside curves.

Then try to manufacture some taper there.

You Know how far the base is?

Sorce
 
Wow Drew.
That lil corkscrew is something!

I don't know how these grow, but I'd be attempting to get it to bud down there on the outside curves.

Then try to manufacture some taper there.

You Know how far the base is?

Sorce
Yes I repotted it in the pre spring this year. The base is not much bigger than what is shown. I'm thinking of eventually removing the trunk down to the first curve if I can get some buds there
 
I don't want to assume @Brian Van Fleet liking my above post means it is possible, but if it is, this is going to be an interesting little tree!

I'm watching !

Sorce
 
You know what?

Nice tree means that too. People are watching. When people are looking for you to reach goals, you try harder.

More philosophy, taught by Koreans in Tae Kwon Do.

Silence ain't always golden!

Sorce
 
Yep, it will bud directly from the trunk. I'd wait until spring and chop it here:
View attachment 84758
Brian, Would you let a sacrifice grow from the portion below the first curve if you got a shoot there after the chop? Also would you trim the roots that have grown into the ground? I'd hate to have only one root growing into the ground and create a lousy nebari.
 
No to both.

Quince heal wounds really slowly, and a sacrifice branch down low means a big scar down low. Keep the trunk clean, make each chop count.

Leave the escape roots intact. Very most likely, a sufficient root system exists in the pot that can sustain the tree later when you cut the escape roots off. For now, capitalize on the tree's strength to build a better trunk from down low.
 
Yes Im wondering the same about the taper. It may be one of those things that will only be able to be corrected minimally by the branch growth. Bottom branch run long to fatten as much as possible the trunk below it and cut back/ regrow
 
Because it's so important to develop a trunk without scars, it's best to build trunks one section at a time...once the nebari is established.

Let a trunk run long, then chop it low, and so the scar is toward the back, and let the next section grow long enough to help close the scar in the section below. Ideally, this results in taper and some movement. This sacrifice growth should be grown with the sole purpose of thickening the next section of trunk, and virtually nothing else; other than a few small shoots that are kept small but alive, on the outside of the curves.

I did a bad job with this one,; the chops are mostly hidden, and you can see 5 distinct trunk sections, with small shoots retained at the outside of curves. Ideally, however, these would be progressively smaller in length and girth as the trunk ascends. The second section blew it. Now I'm trying to find a front that doesn't necessitate cutting it off at the second section and spending another 10 years in the ground:
image.jpeg
If you allow sacrifice branches to remain on the section of trunk you're trying to develop, you get a bulge:
image.jpeg
That necessitates a cut that becomes visible from 90 degrees or more of the tree; reducing my options for a clean front. See the scar front & center on the first photo? It's 6 years old, and has been in the ground "healing at an accelerated rate" for 5 of those years. How long until that's healed up in a pot? 10-12? A long time!

This is a great example of why it's tough to get good results from just sticking a tree in the ground; even after getting the nebari right. It requires a lot of planning ahead, understanding how a tree is likely to respond to chops, and having a vision of how the finished trunk should look. My first quince above is great until halfway up the second section, but since I failed to chop low enough, I have some tough decisions or compromises to make.

Finally, envisioning good perspective and scale are tough in the ground. Unless you're laying prone on the ground, the perspective is from above and not straight on as we tend to view bonsai in pots. And scale is distorted to the larger. Let a trunk grow to 10' tall, it seems wasteful or too drastic to cut it down too far, when the reality is, a trunk should have movement really low if it has it at all. Tough to get the potted tree's scale right when it's in the ground, but keeping 4" of a 10' tree will make a more interesting bonsai later.
 
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Yep, it will bud directly from the trunk. I'd wait until spring and chop it here:
View attachment 84758

So this above...
Is to create a new longer lead?

I was envisioning that as a final height. ..
All corkscrew.
But putting some taper into it, with sacrifices.

This is not possible then?
Because of the bulging?

Sorce
 
@Brian Van Fleet what now? Choose one leader and remove the others? Carve it back so that the leader is coming g from the top most portion of the tree? Or do nothing this year?
 
I'd give it another couple weeks (so you don't rip the new shoots off at the trunk), then:

1. Wire the middle shoot to continue the trunk movement. Wire it loosely, but make some bends.
2. Remove the right-most shoot entirely.
3. Wire the left-most shoot outward to get a little movement. At the end of the season, shorten it to the 1s or 2nd node.

Feed heavily, and watch for aphids. They love the sticky new shoots.
 
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