Chinese Juniper - going to need a plan soon!

[Vance Wood]

Two points: If you harvested this tree in 2012 you should probably wait a couple of years more before doing any serious work on it. Two: I don't understand your aversion to dead wood elements on this tree. I would consider dead wood as almost obligatory to creating a bonsai image using a Juniper of this size.

 

[keri-wms]

I think you're probably right about the deadwood to some degree, in as much as the tree seems to be creating it whether I want it to or not! I did try grafting to keep several of the dead branches going, but it didn't work.

The easy/conventional option would be 80% deadwood (inc jinning all the thick branches) / 20% live bark/vein, I'd like to try and get more the other way round with 20-30% jins/shari but retaining more of the living branches.

At least this one is back budding well, getting light to the new inner shoots is why I took out all the dead bits.

I'm conscious that it's still got a ball of the original clay-like soil in the middle, what do people think the best time to get in there and replace it with free draining stuff would be? Now? Next year? "bonsai pot time" in 3-4 years?

I REALLY don't want root rot, been there before with another similar but smaller Juniper that was dug from the same garden.

 

[eugen_onegin]

My suggestion is to slip pot it into a pond basket for 2-3 years. Allow it to develop a vast amount of finer roots and then you can start to chip away at the clay ball. Using the pond basket will allow the tree to grow more vigorously. Which, while you wait to deal with the rootball, you can kill two birds by thickening your final branches.

Also, if you have experienced a similar issue with root rot from the same garden, I would make it my priority that this mammoth juniper gets the proper aeration pot it's roots need.

 

[keri-wms]

Still leaves the clay in there though. Might have a look and see what's what once it's grown on a bit, assuming it still appears happy.

 

[keri-wms]

This one is still happily not doing very much other than take up the space of 10 of my smaller trees! I had done some experimental grafts to try to keep dead-end branch stubs going, that didn't work which wasn't a shock and no big loss.

Last year I did some more normal grafts, and bagged them.....looks good so far.

I'm pretty sure this is a San Jose, and while it has the odd mature tuft 95% of it is still needles. I'm kind of torn between grafting it with itself to compact it, or grafting with bits from a long-suffering Itoigawa shohin I've got!!!

I even wonder about needle juniper grafts, but the San Jose foliage doesn't float my boat.

 

[Vin]

This one is still happily not doing very much other than take up the space of 10 of my smaller trees! I had done some experimental grafts to try to keep dead-end branch stubs going, that didn't work which wasn't a shock and no big loss.

Last year I did some more normal grafts, and bagged them.....looks good so far.

I'm pretty sure this is a San Jose, and while it has the odd mature tuft 95% of it is still needles. I'm kind of torn between grafting it with itself to compact it, or grafting with bits from a long-suffering Itoigawa shohin I've got!!!

I even wonder about needle juniper grafts, but the San Jose foliage doesn't float my boat.

Seems like it's a matter of what you want more so than what others may think. I have an old Parsons I've grafted to itself that seems to be coming along nicely. Some have tried to talk me into grafting Shimpaku onto it but I'm a "Genuine Parts" kind of guy. However, if you're trying to achieve your sketched version then it would seem grafting Itoigawa is the way to go.

 

[keri-wms]

I like aspects of the sketch still but I've moved on a bit - I'm thinking more compact informal upright like needle junipers (and pines) are often styled, relativity thick trunk as a result but still not much in the way of deadwood other than as needed to deal with dead stubs, ie not for it's own sake.

I still think I prefer the rough bark to the sanded red option, that's part of the thinking too.

 

[Vin]

Just for the record, as soon as I saw the first few images it seemed like removing or jinning this branch was possibly a good choice. It would make for a more compact tree.

 

[discusmike]

She is a thing of beauty already,hope i get to see her in ten years time

 

[jriddell88]

Damn old threads being resurrected from the dead !!well I guess 4 years isn’t that long , Nice
Let’s see some photos !! Glad it’s still kickin

 

[Vance Wood]

Just for the record, as soon as I saw the first few images it seemed like removing or jinning this branch was possibly a good choice. It would make for a more compact tree.

View attachment 174231

I think the subject of grafting came up in this thread and the remark that I'm and original foliage type guy was made. This Parsons is typical of many Parsons I have seen over the years. No matter what you do they never seem to become very vigorous and always seem to look more like run away sage brush than quality Junipers. However with this tree the trunk is magnificent and deserves to be crowned with great Shimpaku foliage. In this example the idea of grafting becomes extremely significant.

 

[Vin]

I think the subject of grafting came up in this thread and the remark that I'm and original foliage type guy was made. This Parsons is typical of many Parsons I have seen over the years. No matter what you do they never seem to become very vigorous and always seem to look more like run away sage brush than quality Junipers. However with this tree the trunk is magnificent and deserves to be crowned with great Shimpaku foliage. In this example the idea of grafting becomes extremely significant.

I do agree about the Parsons foliage. I guess I feel feel like not every juniper should have these pretty little tufts of foliage. You have seen way more Parsons than I. Hopefully, I can make some of mine at least believable at some point.

 

[Vance Wood]

I do agree about the Parsons foliage. I guess I feel feel like not every juniper should have these pretty little tufts of foliage. You have seen way more Parsons than I. Hopefully, I can make some of mine at least believable at some point.

Good luck, I have two of the beasts that I have had more than fifteen years and neither one of them is worth the water to keep them alive. I am sure I am doing something wrong but there you go.

 

[jriddell88]

Good luck, I have two of the beasts that I have had more than fifteen years and neither one of them is worth the water to keep them alive. I am sure I am doing something wrong but there you go.

Can you post pictures id like to see what your talking about

 

[Vance Wood]

Can you post pictures id like to see what your talking about

I now have one of them in the ground where it just kind of bumbles along and does little or nothing. The other is in a pond basket with similar results and neither is where it can be photo easily at the time because of the snow pack.

 

[keri-wms]

The idea that's kicking round my head is to graft new branches 1-2" along the big branches and 0.5-1" along the small upper ones, and once established cut back each branch and jin and/or hollow them. Most are thick and straight, so Itoigawa graft or not - any deadwood won't be the curvy twisted typical style.

The more I think about it the more Itoigawa grafts make sense over original or needle, primarily due to the impression of scale. I don't have to follow the cloud styling, it can still be a more open texture if I want it to.

 

[sorce]

The more I think about it the more Itoigawa grafts make sense over original or needle, primarily due to the

.....fact that you are not into self mutilation!

@Vance Wood @Vin

I'm not saying Home depot went and got fully responsible...
But I haven't seen a Parsonii here since the first Vin Boxstore contest!

Don't recall where that Parsoni was from, but I don't see juniper from that Florida nursery Any more( procumbins) either.

I don't think they(some of them) thrive here, maybe that's why I don't see them anymore.

....

Plus one for grafting! (Though OEM too!)

Sorce

 

[keri-wms]

Self mutilation, heh heh - actually the bigass Mugo Humpy I got recently has taken over that role!

 

[leatherback]

Cool trunk. Did someone mention that?

 

[M. Frary]

I don't think they(some of them) thrive here, maybe that's why I don't see them anymore

They thrive here. They grow better than shimpaku here.
The problem with Parsons like Vance pointed out is the adult scale foliage does look like runaway sage brush. I try to keep them in juvenile foliage. Like procumbens nana,they revert from scale adult foliage to the juvenile foliage if you touch them.