Cedrus Libani

[akhater]

Well I am the only Lebanese I know that does Bonsai so it shouldn't be very commun

I ve been intrested in Bonsai since I was 15 but never really started before 2008, this cedar is my first real experience and you cannot know how much your help is precious to me.

Expanded clay is used here in the mix of bed soil to help drainage it is made locally and pretty cheap.

Again thanks for the help and I will do my best not to disappoint you

 

[milehigh_7]

AK totally off topic but you might try Q. Ilex (holly oak), pomegranate and olives.

 

[Klytus]

I thought i had problems with the distance between me and Bonsai Nursery,that and the general lack of things to do,places to go,things to see,time off to do it.

I guess like the re-naturalised Scots Pine of these Islands,the Mugo's of the central Europe and the Banyan of the tropics these Cedars really do represent the Bonsai persona of the region.

I missed the North America as they have a South/West divide which confuses onlookers,to the West Junipers and to the South it's Swamp Cypress.

Except in Florida where the Banyan rules.

It could be that a Bonsai map of the world will be published one day.

 

[akhater]

@Si mulch done

@milehigh_7 I try to focus on the trees that live happily here like
Ficus , Bougies, pomegranate, and olives

I am currently looking for an olive with a decent trunk to buy for the rest I already have them in ground or in pot and will soon need your help

 

[akhater]

And now it gives me buds and they are swelling !

should I pinch back for back budding ?

 

[Si Nguyen]

Sweet! Nice to see those buds! Don't pinch them back yet. Let the branches grow freely for a few years to thicken them up. You should wire all branches loosely and point the tips of them upward, in order to increase their growth strength. In the future, You will need just one of those branches to create a new trunk line. Pick the best branch only after you have studied the nebari. You might have to chop the new trunk line one more time in 2-3 years in order to create better taper. Then after that, you could start with fine wiring for the final design, which could be show worthy in about 5 years.
Good luck!

 

[akhater]

Hi Si !

Nice to see your still with me on this one

Don't pinch them back yet.

I thought pinching would favorise back budding

You should wire all branches loosely and point the tips of them upward, in order to increase their growth strength.

You mean right now ? or next spring ?

You might have to chop the new trunk line one more time in 2-3 years in order to create better taper

I had in mind to remove it from the ground next spring before it gets to developed root wise does it make sense ?

 

[Si Nguyen]

Hi Akhater, no, pinching back now would weakens the branches too much and they will die.

Yes, you should wire the branches now. But remember, this wiring is only to raise the tips of the branches upward. It's not for final design, so don't do it too tight.

If you had done some root pruning before you had put it into the ground years ago, and if you had placed a hard tile or plate beneath the root ball in order to prevent the tap root from going deep down, then you would have had an option of just cutting some side roots back now but still leave the tree in the ground. In your case, most likely you had not done any prior root work, so it would be ok to dig it up next Spring and start some root training on it. When you dig it up next Spring, do some root arrangement, cut away the deep tap root, and place it into a fairly large but flat container, for it to grow out a few more years. This would make it easier for you to put it into a nice bonsai pot in the final design phase.
God luck.

 

[akhater]

obviously I have a lot to learn ! But I am a fast learner ....

Would you by any chance have a picture to share about how the tip of the branch should look like ? I should just wire, say, the last 1/3 of the branch and raise the tip upward that's it ?

I think I will get back to you before spring for more details about when I how I should dig it up. I have a rather bad experience with cedar roots

 

[Si Nguyen]

No, wire the entire branch, from the trunk to the tip. Or you could just stake the branches up with sticks.

Yes, these cedars do not respond well to root pruning. I have killed 2 very nice trees after 10 years of training. I still have 2 big ones left in big nursery plastic pots after 15 years in the ground, but I am very afraid to touch them. I will post pictures of my trees when I chop them this week. I need to move mine too so I will have to chop them back hard.

Water and feed your tree well this year so it will build up some sap strength in order to survive the root chop next year. If it looks weak next year, do NOT chop any root, just wait another year.

 

[yamins]

Hi Si !

I thought pinching would favorise back budding

Well ... it will, on a branch that is established. I've noticed with cedar that if you pinch back to early, the whole branch is liable to die back.

But I should say, that the pinching/pruning which I recommended in a previous email, only would have applied to foliage higher up on the tree, if you hadn't done the big chop. In that case, the pruning would primarily have been to refocus energy on the lower branches so that they grew well before the chop. Now that you've done the chop, the remaining branches are exactly those low ones which you'd want to grow stronger anyhow ... so they definitely should NOT be pruned for at least a season. (I think.)

 

[akhater]

Ok we are "next year" and I am still keen on going on with this project, so Si what are the plans for this year ? you'd like some pictures?

 

[Si Nguyen]

How time flies! But a year is nothing in the life of a bonsai. Your tree probably haven't grown much. Is it healthy enough to work on yet? Definitely shoot us some pics. Nice to hear from you again Akhater. How's the Arab Spring treating your part of the world?

 

[akhater]

Hello again,

sorry for my late reply I guess i was too busy repotting

The tree looks healthy and has a lot of buds but all the growth is from one side the side that "sees" the sun.

Do I give it a try to remove it from ground this year ? Do I do anything else ? or should I just keep on watering/fertilizing it for this year ?

thanks

 

[akhater]

Here it is as it looks today,

I don't know if I am mistaken but it looks it grew quite a bit since last year

I decided I will not be taking it out of the ground this year, it will be in Fall 2013 or spring 2014.

So what are the plans for this year ? another chop ?

Thanks

 

[Neli]

Any news on the cedar?
I have one and I am trying to ask, does it back bud on the trunk and how to make it back bud?
Can a cedar be airlayered?

 

[akhater]

It is still here and growing strong but, without help of the more experienced, I really have no idea what to do with it

 

[Si Nguyen]

He he he! Glad you are still around here Akhater! How is everything in Lebanon? Sorry I did not reply last year. I thought you left us and I forgot about this thread. Time really flies! Glad to hear that your cedar is doing well. It seemed to have responded well to the trunk chop in 2011.

It is a good time now to do some branch selection. Please try to post new pictures from all sides. Then we will pick out a trunk line and wire a few branches down. I will sketch you a few ideas.
Si

 

[akhater]

Si glad to hear again from you

Situation is just it has always been no better nor worse we just live with it.

Yea it took the trunk chop without any issues but it is still in the ground. will take pictures tomorrow and post them

Thanks

 

[Si Nguyen]

Hi Akhater, any more updates on this little cedar? It is good to start training this tree now. Start with branch selection. Remove the bigger branches. Keep the small ones. Then decide on how to style the branches. Start by studying how these cedars look in the wild. Google it. These are magnificent trees. Try to style it as natural as you can. Avoid the obvious bonsai cliche. Try to avoid making a Christmas tree. Working with the old pic from last year, I just picked a random trunk line. Here is how I see it. You will need to lean the tree a little. Here is a sketch of different branch styles. Very basic lesson but one that is not talked about often enough. Most people think of bonsai as with Christmas tree style branches ( see drawing "C"). Try to avoid that as much as you can, and when you can not avoid it, try to use it sparingly.
Good luck.
Si