Can I graft from the same tree?

[akahz]

Hello,
I've read a lot about grafting, but one question I have I haven't found an answer for yet.
Can I take a cutting of a scion and move it to another location above the trunk on the same tree?

Don't judge, I'm not a purist. I've just been enjoying learning and experimenting over the last few years.
This is an already grafted lace maple that I got for a good price that I wanted to try a cascade or semi cascade with.
I know that's not common with the maple but I've seen a few done that i found enchanting.

You can see how the top branch grows away from the cascade. Id like to graft it towards the trunk for a half kengai.
Is this possible? If so, any suggestions and recommendations?
Thank You

 

[pandacular]

Yes, this is possible. There are several methods to self-graft. The most common is called a thread graft. You could also possibly make an approach graft in a similar, but I’ve never heard of someone doing this. Taking a cutting and grafting it on also sounds like a solid plan of approach, but I have heard laceleaf maples are hard to strike—haven’t tried myself.

Another option, though an incredibly advance one, is a peg graft.

Thread 'EBIHARA BRANCH RELOCATION'

Sep 4, 2020

I've wanted to try this ingenious technique for many years. But I did not have a proper subject until about three years ago when I purchased this multi-trunk Japanese maple that was originally imported from Japan by Doug Paul at the Kennett Collection. The tree suffered greatly in the quarantining process in which one of its large trunks died back. Despite this I fell in love with this large maple and was determined to bring it back to glory by using any and all techniques at my disposal. One of those involved relocating a branch (or two) which was invented and developed by the great Mr...

• MACH5
• Replies: 116
• Forum: Maples

• 
• 

I haven’t done any of these things, so can’t provide tips or instructions, but hopefully this is a starting point.

 

[eugenev2]

Yes, this is possible. There are several methods to self-graft. The most common is called a thread graft. You could also possibly make an approach graft in a similar, but I’ve never heard of someone doing this. Taking a cutting and grafting it on also sounds like a solid plan of approach, but I have heard laceleaf maples are hard to strike—haven’t tried myself.

Another option, though an incredibly advance one, is a peg graft.

Thread 'EBIHARA BRANCH RELOCATION'

Sep 4, 2020

I've wanted to try this ingenious technique for many years. But I did not have a proper subject until about three years ago when I purchased this multi-trunk Japanese maple that was originally imported from Japan by Doug Paul at the Kennett Collection. The tree suffered greatly in the quarantining process in which one of its large trunks died back. Despite this I fell in love with this large maple and was determined to bring it back to glory by using any and all techniques at my disposal. One of those involved relocating a branch (or two) which was invented and developed by the great Mr...

• MACH5
• Replies: 116
• Forum: Maples

• 
• 

I haven’t done any of these things, so can’t provide tips or instructions, but hopefully this is a starting point.

Just a fyi
Regarding taking cuttings and grafting that, it's generally not a popular approach, but a approach some do follow for specific hard to come by named varieties, its not popular due to the time requirements, as you need to wait for the cutting to take first and get strong enough to graft which could take up to a year, before starting the actual grafting process. The graft itself taking a year or more.

 

[akahz]

So probably best to just grab a scion cutting from another lace maple, graft that, and trim the branch I don't want?

 

[Shibui]

You can see how the top branch grows away from the cascade. Id like to graft it towards the trunk for a half kengai.
Is this possible? If so, any suggestions and recommendations?

It is definitely possible to graft pieces of the same tree onto itself. There are a number of possible ways to do it. I'm still not sure what you want to do though. Maybe English translation may be making this not as clear as could be.
Where do you plan to graft?

 

[leatherback]

Yes, it is possible to clip a branch from your tree and graft that on the trunk. This is however a late-winter operation.

 

[ShimpakuBonsai]

I think your white pine has some white aphid like instects on it.

 

[Dabbler]

I think your white pine has some white aphid like instects on it.

could be wax scale, needle cast or just sap - hard to tell from the pic

 

[akahz]

It's sap! Perfectly healthy. One of my lucky ones. Dug it up in the Adirondacks and brought it back to NE Ohio.

 

[akahz]

This is a long the lines of what I had in mind. To clarify any translation issues.
The foliage I have was obviously grafted into the rootstock like most Japanese Maples for the purpose of being a regular landscaped tree. so I'd like to fill it out a bit so it's not a very obvious full kengai.

 

[Shibui]

So maybe something like this with new branches grafted onto the bare section of the trunk?


That can be achieved in a number of ways.
Approach grafting is the easiest and most reliable for beginning grafters. It requires branches that are long enough to reach to the graft sites but those branches remain connected to the tree so they stay alive for as long as the graft takes to heal. Approach graft can be from the same tree back onto itself or from another specimen.

More skill and experience required for scion grafts but you have more flexibility in where the scions come from and where you can place them. Suitable shoots are cut from the parent plant then grafted into the trunk wherever you want the new branch. Accuracy in matching cambium, time of year and protecting the scion to keep it alive until healing takes place are important factors for success in scion grafting. You'd most likely be using side wedge grafts to add scions to the trunk of your tree.

Timing is very important for grafting success. You mentioned you are from NE Ohio but adding that location info to your personal profile means it pops up under your avatar on the left each time you post so we don't have to remember or scroll back to find it.

 

[akahz]

What an abundance of informative replies.
Thank you all so much. I appreciate the time made in editing my photo and helping to perceive one of several options.
That's one of the most rewarding aspects of this hobby I have found; staring at a tree for months and then suddenly you see exactly what to do with what you have, or what you can potentially do with what you don't.

I am right on Lake Erie east of Cleveland, half a mile from the lake. So our weather because of lake effect is entirely different than even 5 miles south of me.
Winters are getting milder and wetter and I think my last Japanese maple died from too much water from the winter.
I'm assuming February would be the best time for a graft. But with climate change, we'll get hard cold snaps in April.