Can’t decide which one to buy

[leatherback]

A little disingenuous using the Netherlands. Try comparing Germany or the UK. Or any other European country....

Born in the Netherlands, hold a dutch passport, work there and pay my taxes there and half of the time do my groceries in Dutch supermarkets.
How is it disingenuous to use my country?

 

[leatherback]

the UK

Individual in UK has 20% less purchasing power than in the US. Cost of living just 1% difference.
Again, the sentiment that Europe across the board is cheaper than the USA is just not true.

Dunno whether this calculator includes the added pre-sales taxes the US goverment has imposed on goods produced outside the USA, which naturally substantially increase costs of everything imported, and as a consequence, will increase prices for products produced locally..

 

[drip]

At that pricepoint.. Not a single one of them.
Really, there must be better trees to be had for that money, even in the USA.

If you are dead-set on getting one of these, 8112 has least obvious challenges. That will however still need a complete rebuild. But I would expect that one the easiest to develop into a decent bonsai.



Hm.. that is not what I see on the pictures.. The pots are regular tall nursery pots, most trees have extensive damage to the trunk that requires 5+ year growing out with sacrifices to close and most taper is from one or two cuts, which are not healed or have big bumps?


As a reference, some 400-500 japanese maples at one of our top-priced importers in WE
View attachment 601081

You would think.. lol. This is the cheapest I could find online

 

[leatherback]

You would think.. lol. This is the cheapest I could find online

sounds like a great opportunity for someone to start growing some excellent bonsai stock.

 

[drip]

These are trees grown by an amateur or someone who just doesn’t care much. Basic problems that could have been mitigated are visible. Save your money please! It is better to have the cash available when a good deal or the right tree comes around. Chicago has a big bonsai presence. Which means you have better material locally that you can see in person.

There is a bonsai show in august, I think it was called mid america bonsai show, but I assumed it would be even more expensive.. maybe not?

 

[Woocash]

Born in the Netherlands, hold a dutch passport, work there and pay my taxes there and half of the time do my groceries in Dutch supermarkets.
How is it disingenuous to use my country?

I know, i didn't mean it like that. It's just that the Netherlands is one of the most expensive places in Europe to choose from, as is the UK and it's still cheaper than the USA. But nevermind.

Maples are expensive everywhere is the moral here. Seems to me the ones shown are larger than the European ones shown and that price is par for the course. You'll be hard pressed to find anything cheaper in the UK at those sizes, for example.

 

[leatherback]

Seems to me the ones shown are larger than the European ones shown and that price is par for the course. You'll be hard pressed to find anything cheaper in the UK at those sizes, for example.

OK. There is a massive quality difference.

If I go similar quality and size,.. This was little over 100E (paid 150 for this + a Birch) last fall:


But well.. Seems like not of our USA colleagues can show sites with better prices. As such.. Feels like a great opportunity for someone to start growing out & airlayering some.

 

[drip]

OK. There is a massive quality difference.

If I go similar quality and size,.. This was little over 100E (paid 150 for this + a Birch) last fall:
View attachment 601089

But well.. Seems like not of our USA colleagues can show sites with better prices. As such.. Feels like a great opportunity for someone to start growing out & airlayering some.

WTF, 100 euros for that, does US have a bonsai inflation? This website is one of the first recommendations for buying online here

 

[Maros]

Looking at that material, 400-500 seems like a lot of money. I'm not buying trees myself, but for my first Acer palmatum I paid around 150 €, 15 years ago, and it was far from material from your pictures. Here, I agree with Jelle, I can't believe you can't find better deals, but I'm not familiar with the US nursery world.
One thing I'm missing is some comparison element, how big trees actually are. I'm almost sure they are bigger than they appear. This kind of bark you can't find on anything younger than 10 years, depending on the cultivar. We also don't see nebari, which could be very good or lousy. In case it is as rough as the upper parts, air layering will be necessary. With good roots after layering, those trunks will look much better.

If I have to make a choice, then 8107 or 8112, depending on whether you go for a more natural or classical tree. I would base my decision on a couple of pictures of the bottom 1/3 of the trunk and nebari from all sides. In any case, all upper parts of the crown must be built from scratch.

 

[leatherback]

WTF, 100 euros for that, does US have a bonsai inflation?

Dunno. Maybe people are just abusing the fact that there is no clear public market.

I'm almost sure they are bigger than they appear. This kind of bark you can't find on anything younger than 10 years, depending on the cultivar.

Absolutely. Fair point.

To go back to the original poster, @drip : A Japanese maple is just a Japanese maple, unless you are after specific cultivars..
Consider looking in the regular nursery trade what you pay for more mature trees and explore them for suitability for bonsai. I believe that that is also where @BobbyLane gets a lot of stock; Regular nurseries and/or fieldgrowers for such nurseries and look in the old leftover stock sections.

From a field grower for regular nursery trade, this one was 25 or 50 bucks, some 6 years ago. Naturally in a burlap ball and 10ft tall and required substantial prune-back.


Two years ago, Little Princess maple from a nursery, around 200E:

 

[River's Edge]

Spend your time assessing the nebari and trunk the rest is easy to change if you are looking for developmental stock in that price range. I would pass on the selection you posted.
I did not notice decent nebari on any of the trees, trunk shape or condition was not to my liking either. Here is an example of a tree that I selected from a local nursery for $169 CAD. The tree was purchased for the nebari and lower trunk. Using this as an example of a different approach as opposed to purchasing material the will need restructuring and still not have nebari and trunk line that is suitable. Not intending it as a fine example. Shishigara.

 

[BobbyLane]

I have definitely seen folks picking up Beech and Hornbeam from nurseries in the US, at not so bad prices. Every so often someone pops up with a thread, then disappears. So they do have places out there. Think Ryan neil mentioned spending $300 each for the Tilia trees in one of the nursery streams. Which is much better value than the prices in the OP. Apparently Oregon is the nursery capital of the US. There's a few on here from Oregon, but I dont see anyone really tapping in.

Plus, the UK is definitely not cheaper than the US across the board! Cmon you guys have Walmart, Target, Homedepot and all these kinds of places

 

[hardtimes]

I’ve noticed bonsai is much cheaper overseas. Even with the new wave of bonsai enthusiasts I do see prices coming down but not to the level of most places in the EU. You will never find anything cheap online, only in person at this point.

 

[shohin_branches]

Have you kept a tree of this species alive for a few years already?

With the scarring and major issues with these trees I personally wouldn't pay that much for them. I really do see the potential in every tree but the value is in what it is right now. These are also very early spring photos. You may want to get photos of them fully leafed out as well to understand how much more work reducing the leaves will be.

 

[drip]

Have you kept a tree of this species alive for a few years already?

With the scarring and major issues with these trees I personally wouldn't pay that much for them. I really do see the potential in every tree but the value is in what it is right now. These are also very early spring photos. You may want to get photos of them fully leafed out as well to understand how much more work reducing the leaves will be.

I will report back with more photos and measurements if i can, and no I pretty much just started a couple months ago lol, but after research and buying trees, deciduous broadleaf species would be the easiest to overwinter in my area, to my knowledge it just needs a cold spot without the need of additional light

 

[Orion_metalhead]

japanese maple may require additional protection in illinois depending on microclimate.

 

[drip]

japanese maple may require additional protection in illinois depending on microclimate.

Correct me if wrong, but to my knowledge I can just put it in my unheated garage in darkness for the entire winter? When I was researching it these don’t need any light or airflow, which is why I made it my choice for spending more money

 

[shohin_branches]

I will report back with more photos and measurements if i can, and no I pretty much just started a couple months ago lol, but after research and buying trees, deciduous broadleaf species would be the easiest to overwinter in my area, to my knowledge it just needs a cold spot without the need of additional light

You're in zone 6a. Winter is a very humbling time for most Midwest Bonsai practitioners. If you haven't done any overwintering yet I would stick with garden center stock until you figure out a good winter storage solution and get used to watering over winter. Definitely connect with Prarie State Bonsai society or the Midwest Bonsai Society for region specific overwintering tips. I'm up in Milwaukee and last winter was really hard on us. Even the most experienced among us lost trees. I lost a really nice hemlock.

 

[drip]

So what I gathered from this is japanese maples are extremely expensive in the US and this website is still my best option for purchasing material, will make a decision after I get more current photos, if it turns out to be a dud I guess i’m going to the midwest bonsai show and hope to find something better

 

[Orion_metalhead]

try to haggle the price?