California structural pruning timing?

[Scrogdor]

When to do hard/structural pruning seems to be a hot topic with different ways of going about it. I'm just a little confused on if I can do some structural work on JPM's and tridents in California/bay area since we don't get winter temps any lower than 30 degrees usually.

 

[BrianBay9]

For deciduous trees I prune in December, as soon as most of the leaves fall. We've only got Dec and Jan as "winter" so you have to get busy. By the end of Jan, early Feb at the latest, many of my trees are starting to bud out.

 

[Shibui]

I also try to do any maple pruning around leaf drop as these bleed excessively when pruned later in winter and spring.
Pruning later can also be OK if combined with root pruning. Bleeding seems to stop immediately if the roots are pruned.
It is also possible to prune maples after leaves have opened and hardened but it's a bit harder to see where to cut.

A lot depends on how old and how thick the trunks and branches are so some pics would help get better advice.

 

[Scrogdor]

I also try to do any maple pruning around leaf drop as these bleed excessively when pruned later in winter and spring.
Pruning later can also be OK if combined with root pruning. Bleeding seems to stop immediately if the roots are pruned.
It is also possible to prune maples after leaves have opened and hardened but it's a bit harder to see where to cut.

A lot depends on how old and how thick the trunks and branches are so some pics would help get better advice.

Just a standard JPM AP. Here are what my plans were. No idea how old this is and It’s an air layer.

 

[Shibui]

Your proposed chop is right near the top and only removes a couple of weak shoots so very little sap flow there and you should have no problem. Very different from chopping the entire trunk off a vigorous tree.
I find that sealing cuts like this helps reduce bark die back and sealed cuts seem to heal over far quicker but actual healing also depends on growth and sap flow past the chop so let the new apex grow free until you get some roll over and the new leader merges into the thicker trunk.

 

[Scrogdor]

Your proposed chop is right near the top and only removes a couple of weak shoots so very little sap flow there and you should have no problem. Very different from chopping the entire trunk off a vigorous tree.
I find that sealing cuts like this helps reduce bark die back and sealed cuts seem to heal over far quicker but actual healing also depends on growth and sap flow past the chop so let the new apex grow free until you get some roll over and the new leader merges into the thicker trunk.

This is the result, I also had to carve the trunk in a decent amount due to soft dead wood. Not sure if this means it will die back more or it will heal around that. I figure if this dies back too far I will cut the trunk at one of the lower two branches and make a smaller bonsai. This being my first angled trunk chop I started high to try and avoid killing the entire tree (blue or red chop in the third picture).

Also, Is it better to leave just one leader or leave all 3 to heal the chop more?

 

[sorce]

I'd cut the 2 smaller ones off later but not too late. Not necessarily to help the healing, but because they shouldn't impair design any further for at least a week or so after growth, so keeping them is just keeping odds in your favor.
As soon as you cut 2 off too early, a squirrel becomes hungry, or more correctly, just assholish.

I think now is a good time to cut because the slow start in spring is easier to observe and control this growth, where in the summer, you can end up with a knotted mess of design death much quicker.

As much as I do not believe in "aftercare" for horticultural. (priorcare always wins for hort) Design aftercare, especially as pertains to vigorous opposites is friggin paramount.

Diligence level 9/10.

Sorce

 

[Shibui]

Good job for the first reduction cut.
Carving the centre out is probably good as that can make room for the callus to grow over without forming a lump. Soft and rotting wood does not mean the outer bark will die back. Trees continue to grow even when the entire centre is hollowed out so core and growing outer wood are not connected.
New bark cannot grow over really rotten wood or a hollow centre so fingers crossed the wood you have left is still solid enough to support new cambium. If not, it is possible to fill holes with a range of fillers to allow healing to grow over. Another alternative is to make a feature by encouraging the hollow - nest for bonsai owl, etc.

Leave all 3 apical shoots for now - insurance as well as helping to hasten healing. They should also help to encourage the area to thicken more to fit in with the much thicker trunk below.

When you do decide which to chop the extra shoots here please consider internode length. Looks like the stronger centre one has a very long internode at the base which means no natural buds or branches in that section and I'd really like to have the option for branches closer together up there. One of the thinner ones is likely to have shorter basal internode and will probably be a much better proposition to build a new apex. Consider trying to bend one or more of these to give a better trunk line if necessary - no overall shot of the entire trunk yet so hard to decide if the current direction fits in with the lower trunk line and branch placement.

 

[Scrogdor]

Good job for the first reduction cut.
Carving the centre out is probably good as that can make room for the callus to grow over without forming a lump. Soft and rotting wood does not mean the outer bark will die back. Trees continue to grow even when the entire centre is hollowed out so core and growing outer wood are not connected.
New bark cannot grow over really rotten wood or a hollow centre so fingers crossed the wood you have left is still solid enough to support new cambium. If not, it is possible to fill holes with a range of fillers to allow healing to grow over. Another alternative is to make a feature by encouraging the hollow - nest for bonsai owl, etc.

Leave all 3 apical shoots for now - insurance as well as helping to hasten healing. They should also help to encourage the area to thicken more to fit in with the much thicker trunk below.

When you do decide which to chop the extra shoots here please consider internode length. Looks like the stronger centre one has a very long internode at the base which means no natural buds or branches in that section and I'd really like to have the option for branches closer together up there. One of the thinner ones is likely to have shorter basal internode and will probably be a much better proposition to build a new apex. Consider trying to bend one or more of these to give a better trunk line if necessary - no overall shot of the entire trunk yet so hard to decide if the current direction fits in with the lower trunk line and branch placement.

I see what you mean about the internodes on the main one. It’s got nice movement in the base. That long first branch I was going to leave as a sacrifice branch and possibly turn it into a second trunk later if it fits

 

[leatherback]

Hate to be a nag, but.. Have you considered the lower chop? From the pictures so far, it seems like you have now nice movement low, but the last part of the trunk is straight. Chopping lower would enhance taper & movement. Do you know what side has the best roots?

Then check your wiring because what you have wired now does not seem t have a whole load of effect. Myself, I prefer to wire much younger branches as it is easier & faster to get a few tight curves.

 

[Scrogdor]

Hate to be a nag, but.. Have you considered the lower chop? From the pictures so far, it seems like you have now nice movement low, but the last part of the trunk is straight. Chopping lower would enhance taper & movement. Do you know what side has the best roots?

Then check your wiring because what you have wired now does not seem t have a whole load of effect. Myself, I prefer to wire much younger branches as it is easier & faster to get a few tight curves.

View attachment 414241

Yeah I was thinking that would be an option as well. The way I got the tree those branches were pretty much too hard to really bend. Was also not in good health, so I just wanted to move them away from the trunk a little bit to see if I could use them for anything down the road. Not sure If I would be able to bend that blue branch in the direction that is needed. Open to suggestions though. Tree seems to be healthy now, has had a ton of roots sprout through the bottom of the air pot mesh and coming out of the side holes. I have not dug around to check the top nebari yet

 

[Scrogdor]

Few more pics with some better lighting. Back side is there as well. Some ugly trunk stuff going on there though