Building taper from the ground up ???

[stacy allen muse]

Often times when I am doing the initial styling on a bonsai, I don't wire up a leader...
I just work the tree branch by branch slowly moving up the tree building year by year.

For Me... I find this type of a perhaps "unconventional" approach, seems to resolve alot
of the taper issues one often finds...

Now obviously some material can not be done in this way...

Curious, if others have done the same ???
Or have found similar conclusions ???

 

[Zach Smith]

Do you have any progression photos showing how this process works? Are you shooting for better taper, less scarring, or ??

Zach

 

[daygan]

By "working the tree branch by branch, slowly moving up the tree", do you mean something similar to what mrcasey posted here?

 

[october]

Hello Stacy..Are you referring to the "clip and grow" method. This is when you let the tree grow, then cut back to a branch for the new top. Then when that grows, you cut back to another branch. This is effective for building nice curves and taper. I believe it is actually a penjing (chinese) technique. This is an extremely long process.

Rob

 

[Klytus]

Plenty of time to learn balance.

 

[stacy allen muse]

Sorry everyone, when I did original thread post it was rather late, and now realize I should have been a tad bit more specific...

What I am getting at is that when one begins initial styling of stumped material, it is usually a general rule that one picks a branch for a new leader and wire it up.
Which when I first started doing bonsai, was what I did.
But I often found I encountered problems...
one being that branches higher up, increasing in size much faster than those below
faster, as well as better banch structure higher up
and an apex always needing to be either redesigned, chopped, or defoiliated.

Seeing that for the most part alot of a trees growth energy is forced towards the top, or towards the ends of the tree...
and seeing that a tree naturally wants to extend itself... it's seems a little more productive to work with this understanding,
rather than against it ???

So, yes Daygan, it is similar to what you linked too, but I do use wire and minipulate my trunks...
and no October it is not really "clip and grow"

What I do when I am doing my initial styling is that rather than picking a leader and wiring it up,
I don't...
I figure which new growth I would like to retain, and wire it into position for my lower branches.
Then begin work on those, triming any growth growing up.
When I am ready to start moving on up the tree, I just stop cutting the growth growing up.
The tree naturally shoots up.
Building as one goes...

 

[daygan]

I think I understand - so, what do you do with the trunk and branches that are above those lower branches that you have chosen to keep and wire? Do you chop the trunk? Or something else?

 

[mat]

Stacy, do you have any progression photos to help explain? Are there certain species that you've found this works particularly well with?

I like the advice of cutting off everything that grows up. My dad has given me similar advice on both bonsai and plants in the ground that you want to train (not necessarily for transfer to pots). Focus that energy where you want it. I'm trying to apply it to some young portulacarias that I'm working on.

 

[stacy allen muse]

Daygan,
when I start this process I have initally chopped the trunk well before, and now I am beginning to work with the new growth that has since returned.

 

[stacy allen muse]

Stacy, do you have any progression photos to help explain? Are there certain species that you've found this works particularly well with?

I like the advice of cutting off everything that grows up. My dad has given me similar advice on both bonsai and plants in the ground that you want to train (not necessarily for transfer to pots). Focus that energy where you want it. I'm trying to apply it to some young portulacarias that I'm working on.

Sorry Mat, I don't have any actual progression photos, but will try and take some photos of one's I have worked this way.

 

[daygan]

Cool. I get it now That's basically similar to (or exactly the same as) how I'll be working with a lot of the material that I have. And yes, very similar to mrcasey's method, except with wiring of the new leader. Incidently, when I read mrcasey's method, I thought to myself - "well, why not do that and wire as well, so that you can control the direction the tree grows in if you want that extra control?" which, well, is kinda what you do

 

[mrcasey]

To clarify, I do sometimes use wire to slightly change the angle at which the new trunk leader extends from the previous section of trunk. I don't usually use wire to radically change trunk direction. I use chops for that.