Bonsai Work Based on Lunar Events

[AlainK]

I don't pay attention to it : maybe it works, but there are so many other factors that are so much more tangible that I don't think it matters much...

 

[rockm]

Sorce Hence!

Those sites are just as "official" as the ones claiming it true.

Each side can have a ridiculous, unthought-out argument.....and be right...just depends who yells louder.

I only believe it because of the 50 or so times I've seen roots out my baskets...only 2 times was during a waxing phase.

Rain? It would be closer to half. I always look and never Don't check.

If the moon does effect the rain....
It would be a bit indirect...
But still true in my world.

I am going to convince you with facts by the end of the season.

Sorce

That's a false equivalency. No, not yelling louder. Just more sensibly. Moon simply has nothing to do with terrestrial plant growth...

https://www.nytimes.com/1991/05/02/garden/planting-by-the-full-moon-bright-idea-or-lunacy.html
"It's mythology," said Cynthia Rosenzweig, an agronomist at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in Manhattan. "There has to be a physical reason why the moon's different phases would affect soil properties, soil temperature, moisture content, precipitation, which are the actual physical factors that make seeds germinate. And that isn't documentable."
Her colleague Frank Abramopoulos, an astrophysicist, agreed. "The tidal force -- the gravitational pull of the moon -- would be there, but at a level smaller than would affect any biochemical processes," he said.
"A lot of people who call us with problems want to know something specific," said Chela Kleiber, a Burpee horticulturist. "But often there isn't a specific answer. So they like to have another answer, like planting potatoes by the moon. And if it works, they feel happy. They feel there's more meaning to it. It gives them more of a sense of knowledge: 'The reason it worked was because I knew that was the time to plant.' "

The last quote is probably the most pertinent. Doesn't really do any good, but do it if it makes you feel better.

All of this crap skates past the unshakeable truth that at no time has man/woman been more productive and innovative and knowledgeable than now. In only the last 100 years or so, agricultural production has allowed a single farmer, who fed four people, to one farmer being able to feed over 150...mostly through modernized technology. That is a remarkable achievement.

 

[Anthony]

On our side, 3 days before and 3 days after a Full Moon,
rain will fall - mostly.

Now how would I use the moon phases with Bonsai ?

I don't know, since we water and do know the humidity
affects buds.
Good Day
Anthony

* We use sterile soil for seeds.
Nothing special for cuttings.

Aged Compost with Inorganics for trees / shrubs.

 

[rockm]

I have no idea about it being true or not. But while I was stationed over in Italy, over the 19yrs I lived there I questioned about that and asked people who made wine. My wife's father had mentioned it to me, and I assumed he learned from his father. What he told me was that depending when you bottle would have an affect on the taste.....in terms of it being flat or frizzante. Also the type of grape, what type of casks, etc.... It's really an art making wine.

I know there's old wise tales, but some small things do and can affect others. Such as more babies being born on full moons.....while this is not "scientifically proven to be true" it has been proven that mothers do come into labor "more often" based on certain barometric pressures.

The moon and sun have a very important role on life here on Earth. A disruption from either or can make a difference on how things live or grow.

I'm not taking sides here, just saying the moon and sun, light and dark does affect life.

"I'm not taking sides here, just saying the moon and sun, light and dark does affect life"

Well, you are taking a side, but just badly. The moon and the sun provide light. I guess you're talking about circadian rhythms? That is not moon related. That is the earth's rotation into the light and darkness. What is being pushed here is mostly gravitational effects, or some kinds of metaphysical argle bargle...

 

[just.wing.it]

I wonder how the plants grew before the moon was in the sky....??????

 

[Pitoon]

"I'm not taking sides here, just saying the moon and sun, light and dark does affect life"

Well, you are taking a side, but just badly. The moon and the sun provide light. I guess you're talking about circadian rhythms? That is not moon related. That is the earth's rotation into the light and darkness. What is being pushed here is mostly gravitational effects, or some kinds of metaphysical argle bargle...

@rockm - All I said was that the sun and moon, light and dark affect life on Earth. Nothing more, nothing less....was not talking about circadian rhythms, rotation, gravitation, meditation, pluto is no longer a planet, argle or bargle...... simply the sun and moon, light and dark affect life on Earth.....that's it.

Take away one of the four, and some sort of life form will be affected.

 

[Anthony]

Isn't the moon part of the Earth and a smashed planet - is it Vespa ?
Good Day,
Anthony

* Any tree type life forms around then ?
Or should we just look at cells?

 

[PiñonJ]

I wonder how the plants grew before the moon was in the sky....??????

They didn’t. Earth was hostile to life long after the impact that formed the earth and moon.
FWIW, from Wikipedia:
‘No difference in beneficial outcomes has been scientifically established between certified biodynamic agricultural techniques and similar organic and integrated farming practices. Biodynamic agriculture lacks strong scientific evidence for its efficacy and has been labeled a pseudoscience because of its overreliance upon esoteric knowledge and mystical beliefs.’

 

[rockm]

@rockm - All I said was that the sun and moon, light and dark affect life on Earth. Nothing more, nothing less....was not talking about circadian rhythms, rotation, gravitation, meditation, pluto is no longer a planet, argle or bargle...... simply the sun and moon, light and dark affect life on Earth.....that's it.

Take away one of the four, and some sort of life form will be affected.

Well, yeah??? What's you're point in the discussion about moon affecting repotting times for bonsai. I mean, this is pretty vague--which is the point of the argument about whether the moon affects plants. The less you can pin it down, the more "powerful" it becomes, so all the details and proof are vague. Boils down to feelings, not science.

And Anthony, I have no idea wtf you're talking about. the moon separated from Earth (if ONE of the current theories is correct), long before life began here. If life were actually present when that big of a chunk our planet cracked off and spun out, the gravitational and environmental forces unleashed by that separation would have destroyed any meaningful life form...

 

[just.wing.it]

They didn’t. Earth was hostile to life long after the impact that formed the earth and moon.
FWIW, from Wikipedia:
‘No difference in beneficial outcomes has been scientifically established between certified biodynamic agricultural techniques and similar organic and integrated farming practices. Biodynamic agriculture lacks strong scientific evidence for its efficacy and has been labeled a pseudoscience because of its overreliance upon esoteric knowledge and mystical beliefs.’

You should research several ancient groups have stories passed down in their oral traditions telling of a time before the moon, they say the moon was brought here.....by the Gods.
(Aka, artificial satellite)

 

[Pitoon]

I could have swore I saw a report about that astronaut that stood out in space for a year came back different, due to no gravity???

I know they have sprouted seeds up in space with no gravity, but it needed light.

@rockm - You seemed a bit urked out today? Did the Mormon brothers stop by the house asking you to convert today?

 

[LanceMac10]

the moon separated from Earth (if ONE of the current theories is correct)

.....this the other one?



....for the record, I do not observe lunar cycles in relation to working plant material......

 

[rockm]

I could have swore I saw a report about that astronaut that stood out in space for a year came back different, due to no gravity???

I know they have sprouted seeds up in space with no gravity, but it needed light.

@rockm - You seemed a bit urked out today? Did the Mormon brothers stop by the house asking you to convert today?

I just get frustrated when people seem to accept this pseudoscientific claptrap based on no good evidence. Your statement about the "I swore I saw" some vague report about an astronaut coming back differently" is kind of depressing. There is a lot going on with that report, NONE of it really relevant here. Things certainly change once you're out of the Earth's atmosphere, but we're talking about what happens on the planet's surface.

https://www.livescience.com/62000-scott-kelly-dna-twin-study.html

I don't have a problem with Mormons, other than they bother me at dinnertime. I just tell them I'm Catholic and the Pope will put a spell on them and they leave...

 

[LanceMac10]

Did read the moon is moving away from the Earth....will this factor into the future of this planet?

 

[amatbrewer]

https://www.nytimes.com/1991/05/02/garden/planting-by-the-full-moon-bright-idea-or-lunacy.html
"It's mythology," said Cynthia Rosenzweig, an agronomist at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in Manhattan. "There has to be a physical reason why the moon's different phases would affect soil properties, soil temperature, moisture content, precipitation, which are the actual physical factors that make seeds germinate. And that isn't documentable."
Her colleague Frank Abramopoulos, an astrophysicist, agreed. "The tidal force -- the gravitational pull of the moon -- would be there, but at a level smaller than would affect any biochemical processes," he said.
"A lot of people who call us with problems want to know something specific," said Chela Kleiber, a Burpee horticulturist. "But often there isn't a specific answer. So they like to have another answer, like planting potatoes by the moon. And if it works, they feel happy. They feel there's more meaning to it. It gives them more of a sense of knowledge: 'The reason it worked was because I knew that was the time to plant.' "

Sorry, but I think you kind of miss represented the article by leaving out what I feel is a key part "The world of hard science hasn't tried to study this stuff." prior to the statement that "It's mythology". Saying it is mythology without hard evidence is just as bad, if not worse, that promoting a myth. Two sides of the same coin. This is the problem (and fun) with this sort of discussion. Lots of assumptions, regurgitating of 3rd hand information, and the use of anecdotal evidence (a misnomer if ever there was one).

The moon does have impact on many biological functions which is fairly well known and accepted. But it does not affect everything, and not to the same degree. For example does the moon’s gravitation impact the water in my Koi pond? Sure, probably. But is any affect it might have so slight as to be totally meaningless to me?…Of that I have little doubt. (at least until I see convincing evidence to the contrary)

The question should be: What, if any, bonsai related practices are impacted by lunar cycles significant enough that we should take it into account?
I am inclined based on the VERRY little knowledge I have, that without some good evidence otherwise, to doubt there is any significant relationship between lunar cycles and something like repotting. Even if there is a connection, I suspect it is probably so slight as to be rendered operationally irrelevant. That is, the affect is

However, that said, while I am strongly opposed to the use of anecdotal evidence, the engineer in me requires that I mention that of everything I have read here so far, the closest thing I have seen to any sort of evidence is Source’s comment “because of the 50 or so times I've seen roots out my baskets...only 2 times was during a waxing phase.” I would not call that on its own sufficient proof to resolve the question, but at least he provides some substance to support his claim. A key for me to move towards the “only pot when the moon is X” would be a reasonable biological explanation of what is occurring (or not) and why and/or a well controlled and reviewed study. In the face of evidence, I am more than happy to admit my ignorance and move past it.

 

[rockm]

Sorry, but I think you kind of miss represented the article by leaving out what I feel is a key part "The world of hard science hasn't tried to study this stuff." prior to the statement that "It's mythology". Saying it is mythology without hard evidence is just as bad, if not worse, that promoting a myth. Two sides of the same coin. This is the problem (and fun) with this sort of discussion. Lots of assumptions, regurgitating of 3rd hand information, and the use of anecdotal evidence (a misnomer if ever there was one).

The moon does have impact on many biological functions which is fairly well known and accepted. But it does not affect everything, and not to the same degree. For example does the moon’s gravitation impact the water in my Koi pond? Sure, probably. But is any affect it might have so slight as to be totally meaningless to me?…Of that I have little doubt. (at least until I see convincing evidence to the contrary)

The question should be: What, if any, bonsai related practices are impacted by lunar cycles significant enough that we should take it into account?
I am inclined based on the VERRY little knowledge I have, that without some good evidence otherwise, to doubt there is any significant relationship between lunar cycles and something like repotting. Even if there is a connection, I suspect it is probably so slight as to be rendered operationally irrelevant. That is, the affect is

However, that said, while I am strongly opposed to the use of anecdotal evidence, the engineer in me requires that I mention that of everything I have read here so far, the closest thing I have seen to any sort of evidence is Source’s comment “because of the 50 or so times I've seen roots out my baskets...only 2 times was during a waxing phase.” I would not call that on its own sufficient proof to resolve the question, but at least he provides some substance to support his claim. A key for me to move towards the “only pot when the moon is X” would be a reasonable biological explanation of what is occurring (or not) and why and/or a well controlled and reviewed study. In the face of evidence, I am more than happy to admit my ignorance and move past it.

OK, so the relative 1,000 times I've seen roots emerging from my pots was on a Thursdays a couple of months after I repotted them in March. Does my half-assed, unverified observation with more than two decades in bonsai and roughly 200 more trees overrule Source? Probably not, since all this is mostly due to the owner's abilities not the moon's.

 

[Pitoon]

Did read the moon is moving away from the Earth....will this factor into the future of this planet?

I believe its at about one inch a year

 

[sorce]

So To hell with NASA.

We never been to the moon.

The firmament and all....

So reading "scientifical facts" from that bunch of tax taking clowns is not going to be taken seriously by me.

Those are the same people claiming we are blasting through space and spinning and all....

Yet, when we look up at the stars, we, without our heads in our asses, can clearly, clearly see it is Bullshit.

But brainwashing works....so...

Sorce

 

[rockm]

So To hell with NASA.

We never been to the moon.

The firmament and all....

So reading "scientifical facts" from that bunch of tax taking clowns is not going to be taken seriously by me.

Those are the same people claiming we are blasting through space and spinning and all....

Yet, when we look up at the stars, we, without our heads in our asses, can clearly, clearly see it is Bullshit.

But brainwashing works....so...

Sorce

Look if you find comfort in taking the moon's phase into account in repotting your trees, good for you. Your success in repotting trees is probably more due to your increasing skill as a bonsai ist and not the phases of the moon.

But this is a lot like Superthrive, the Brawndo of bonsai--a lot of assumptions and no hard evidence...

 

[Gustavo Martins]

moon gravity does influence everything on earth. However, unlike water, the influence on the mass of small objects (trees, cars, ourselves) is pretty much Negligible. There is not much to pull...