Bonsai Takes Time!

[brewmeister83]

I don't recall the definition of bonsai including anything about how long a tree has been styled...

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I though I heard somewhere that in Japan some exhibitions don't start accepting trees until they're 20 years old (in final pot, taken a few styling sessions and aged/refined for some time) To them, that's the bare minimum requirement for Bonsai to be shown.

This thread and the artisan cup trees mentioned reminds me of one of the first Graham Potter vids I ever saw years ago:

I remember it so well because I thought he had "finished" the tree to the point it was bonsai, but at 7:13 he dropped the bombshell "There's 10 years of work gone into this tree, and in ten more years we can call it bonsai." No offense to those at the artisan cup, you have unequaled skill and material compared to someone like me, but I can't help but think of this quote when I look at those massive juni that are 5 years old. They kinda remind me of the yew in the vid - close, but not quite there yet.

 

[lieuz]

How exactly have you succeeded at this craft? You have a handful of twigs on a windowsill in ridiculous hand made pots.

I personally think this statement is a bit harsh. I think everyone is excelling at different rates, isn't the topic of this thread, "Bonsai takes time?"

 

[coh]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I though I heard somewhere that in Japan some exhibitions don't start accepting trees until they're 20 years old (in final pot, taken a few styling sessions and aged/refined for some time) To them, that's the bare minimum requirement for Bonsai to be shown.

I've never heard that, have never been to Japan, so it's quite possible there are some exhibitions that have that kind of rule. I've never been made aware of any kind of age requirement (years in training, years since collection, whatever) for any of the shows I've been to. That includes local club shows and the National Exhibitions. And obviously not for the Artisans Cup!

 

[M. Frary]

How exactly have you succeeded at this craft? You have a handful of twigs on a windowsill in ridiculous hand made pots.

He hasn't yet mastered this craft yet.
He looks to guys like you with the helpful replies. Because you obviously must be a bonsai master extrordanaire to make such a reply.
Or you're just a dumbass who thinks he is.
So which is it there choppy?

 

[choppychoppy]

He hasn't yet mastered this craft yet.
He looks to guys like you with the helpful replies. Because you obviously must be a bonsai master extrordanaire to make such a reply.
Or you're just a dumbass who thinks he is.
So which is it there choppy?

No he doesnt. He doesnt ask questions he posts post after post after post of drivel. And he ANSWERS most questions posed on this forum. So Im wondering why he would do such a thing if he is a beginner who is trying to actually learn something. And yes I am involved professionally in this craft and work and sell trees and help give lessons and take care of trees for people so I do think I know what I'm doing and so do the folks I work with. And the reason I dont post much in the way of 'helpful' is Im not concerned with helping internet fools who dont really want advice just to see what everyone says and then do their own thing or just make cute/moronic snide jokes. I help people with this craft every day. I also answer any real question anyone has ever asked.

My point - that you missed - was how can someone that has NO mastery of something make the claim that they can learn/do anything involving this or any craft on their own. Unless you are a self taught master in your own right there is no way that you can make this claim. How many great athletes or crafters or builders did it all on their own. Some sure, but most had teachers. And those that didnt probably had some innate skill that would advance them at a pretty rapid rate (much farther along than sorce is). After only a few months of intense study and learning I would have put everything he has in the trash and gotten some real material. So how has after years he is still in the same spot development wise. To me that doesnt seem like any advancement regardless of time spent.

 

[M. Frary]

Because you obviously must be a bonsai master extrordanaire to make such a reply.
Or you're just a dumbass who thinks he is.

One or the other choppy.
How do you help teach bonsai anyway? Hold the cutters for someone who really knows what they are doing?
Remember,you have been doing this for 3 years or less.

 

[choppychoppy]

One or the other choppy.
How do you help teach bonsai anyway? Hold the cutters for someone who really knows what they are doing?
Remember,you have been doing this for 3 years or less.

Yep three years going on four of intense study with a mentor - I have probably worked on over 1000 trees and prob have 200+ at my home. I work very hard at this craft and I can guarantee I am pretty skilled. I dont think Im bonsai master extraordinaire but I do have a decent amount of knowledge. Now I know you are an amazing artist and expert in all things bonsai I mean we've all seen the amazing stumps so forgive me if I am not in your class. And again anything I 'teach' would come from actual experience working on trees so its quite simple really.

 

[M. Frary]

ow I know you are an amazing artist and expert in all things bonsai I mean we've all seen the amazing stumps

Thanks man.
I'll take it as a compliment.
Because you have a mentor and trees that Cost more than Sorces doesn't make you any better than him.
And saying if you had his trees you would toss them in the trash makes you a worse person than him. Way worse.
Do you say these kind of things to the people you supposedly teach. The class would get small very fast if you did.
And that's coming from an amazing artist and expert in all things bonsai.
I do like that so much. I think I'll put that in my signature at the bottom of my post page. Coming from a guy like you just confirms to the rest of the bonsai world what I knew all along.

 

[sorce]

How exactly have you succeeded at this craft? You have a handful of twigs on a windowsill in ridiculous hand made pots.

Bogus!

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

Bogus!

Sorce

He ain't so bad.
He said some real nice things about me. If I knew he thought that way of me I wouldn't have said mean things to him.
He's an expert you know. Been around. Teacher and all.

 

[choppychoppy]

Because you have a mentor and trees that Cost more than Sorces doesn't make you any better than him.
And saying if you had his trees you would toss them in the trash makes you a worse person than him. Way worse.
Do you say these kind of things to the people you supposedly teach. The class would get small very fast if you did.

Ive never said I was 'better' than anyone haha - I never said anything personal about anyone. But I'm not afraid to say my skills are most likely better than his. Ive worked hard to get them there - I spend a lot of hours every day working on trees. And I never said I would throw his trees in the trash I said after what I learned I would throw mine away and that is exactly what I did. And you need obviously need talking to directly because your reading comprehension is really terrible and you have stated many times yourself that you are an obstinate ass, so yes I would speak to you that way. Have a nice nite.

 

[sorce]

Damn! @choppychoppy

First I was really wanted to check your context here for sarcasm.

Don't you have a set of internet cahones.

These people know me. And when it matters.....they understand me too.....

If .not.... madden!

I hope to the Paris thread(god) this is a long joke, that you got my friend riled up About too......maybe even M.F is in on it....
I hope so .....

Otherwise.......

You go play with your 200+ tree s....

You mad cuz I was born with shit you paid for......

Watch me Choppy Choppy.
Keep learning.

Go back and read.

You're wrong !

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Oh and Adair helps me so yes.
I save him type time.
And others.

Go quote all my bad advice....

I give design advice cause that's what I know......
Did you LEARN that that is always an opinion.....or do I always have to type it.

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

After only a few months of intense study and learning I would have put everything he has in the trash and gotten some real material.

And I never said I would throw his trees in the trash I said after what I learned I would throw mine away

And you need obviously need talking to directly because your reading comprehension is really terrible

Hmmm. My reading comprehension seems to be working fine.
Your memory seems to be not so good though.
And here after you said all those nice things I thought you might be developing a man crush on me. I'm starting to think I may be wrong? Say it isn't so.

 

[sorce]

He meant...

After only a few months of intense study and learning I would have put everything he has, (if I had it), in the trash and gotten some real material.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Still some shit tho aint it.?

Vance was right! Jesus is Back!

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

He meant...

After only a few months of intense study and learning I would have put everything he has, (if I had it), in the trash and gotten some real material.

Sorce

I read it a different way. The insulting way. Which it was meant to be.

 

[sorce]

meant to be.

I highly misunderstood meant to be!

I think he thought I meant I succeeded in Mastering this....
I suceeded in Making those pots!
And getting shit to live!

Lol.

For someone who knows everything I post......
He Oughhta know my humbleness too.
Must have stopped reading when I used big words with slang ones.....
Or when the jealousy kicked in.....

I got 20 bucks says Jriddel wasn't spoon fed.......

When you need for, it's amazing the kind of shit you have to pick up!
And then you gotta see how the skills are transferable. That's tough.
Spoon fed people lack these skills.

Diplomas are good for burning when the light go out!
But you better know how to start the fire!

Sorce

 

[jriddell88]

I highly misunderstood meant to be!

I think he thought I meant I succeeded in Mastering this....
I suceeded in Making those pots!
And getting shit to live!

Lol.

For someone who knows everything I post......
He Oughhta know my humbleness too.
Must have stopped reading when I used big words with slang ones.....
Or when the jealousy kicked in.....

I got 20 bucks says Jriddel wasn't spoon fed.......

When you need for, it's amazing the kind of shit you have to pick up!
And then you gotta see how the skills are transferable. That's tough.
Spoon fed people lack these skills.

Diplomas are good for burning when the light go out!
But you better know how to start the fire!

Sorce

I'm just a hick from the sticks, know enough to be dangerous

 

[sorce]

I'm just a hick from the sticks, know enough to be dangerous

I am making you a subject of my

Bonsai Socioeconomic experiment!

You're the man!

Sorce