Bonsai Takes Time!

[Andrew Robson]

First of all Andrew, I don't think you know who I am in the big picture of California Bonsai. I pretty much know everyone on the left coast and have seen all but about twenty trees that were in the exhibit. The trees I had not seen were of Michael's and Ryan's. A good many were from California, and many of them can be seen on my blog.

So you're saying it was a two man show, now you're saying about 40 trees are ones that are in California? I'm confused. Was it a two man show or wasn't it?

There is no doubt in my mind I know what a good and old tree with patina looks like. I'm sorry I didn't see it there.

I am aware that you are heavily connected with the bonsai community in California. I know you have some nice trees, and have been exposed to many bonsai. What I'm saying is that the trees in the Cup were not instant bonsai, but bonsai that are early in their training. However, they were all amazing trees, and all deserved to be there. Did a lot of them need more refinement? Yes, but that doesn't mean they can't be appreciate for where they are now. With your logic, were should never show trees until they are perfect, which would mean we would never show our trees at all.

 

[Andrew Robson]

I go yearly to Boons exhibit

I'm going to the BIB show this January. It will be my first time in California, and I'm really excited! Would love to meet you in person that weekend!

 

[sorce]

I'm going to the BIB show this January. It will be my first time in California, and I'm really excited! Would love to meet you in person that weekend!

He's never gonna make 10k posts if you guys have this conversation in person.

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

Would love to meet you in person

That would be the highlight of the show for me.
The first time I met Vance was at a show. The first thing I did was walk straight to his quasi raft mugo,ogled that tree for about 10 minutes. Then I went and introduced myself to Vance. I looked at all of the trees eventually but mostly spent all of my time with him.
Guys like Smoke and Vance are one in a billion guys. To find one and get to talk to them about bonsai is a once in a lifetime experience.
Like your teachers Andrew they sweat bonsai. And in Al's case piss excellence.

 

[Adair M]

I'm going to the BIB show this January. It will be my first time in California, and I'm really excited! Would love to meet you in person that weekend!

Andrew, this year's BIB show is going to be a little different. It usually features one room with large bonsai (two man trees) and one room with more normal sized and shohin trees.

This year, the show will be only the smaller trees.

 

[Dav4]

That would be the highlight of the show for me.
The first time I met Vance was at a show. The first thing I did was walk straight to his quasi raft mugo,ogled that tree for about 10 minutes. Then I went and introduced myself to Vance. I looked at all of the trees eventually but mostly spent all of my time with him.
Guys like Smoke and Vance are one in a billion guys. To find one and get to talk to them about bonsai is a once in a lifetime experience.
Like your teachers Andrew they sweat bonsai. And in Al's case piss excellence.

...and the occasional kidney stone...

 

[Andrew Robson]

Andrew, this year's BIB show is going to be a little different. It usually features one room with large bonsai (two man trees) and one room with more normal sized and shohin trees.

This year, the show will be only the smaller trees.

Boon filled me in, I'm still just as excited! I think it's awesome that they change the show every year!!!

 

[Adair M]

That would be the highlight of the show for me.
The first time I met Vance was at a show. The first thing I did was walk straight to his quasi raft mugo,ogled that tree for about 10 minutes. Then I went and introduced myself to Vance. I looked at all of the trees eventually but mostly spent all of my time with him.
Guys like Smoke and Vance are one in a billion guys. To find one and get to talk to them about bonsai is a once in a lifetime experience.
Like your teachers Andrew they sweat bonsai. And in Al's case piss excellence.

Meeting Al at last year's show was fun, gotta admit.

But meeting Al's wife, THAT was a one in a billion experience! Can you imagine what she has to put up with on a daily basis? Boggles the mind!

 

[LanceMac10]

I'm kidding!!!!

Al has certainly forgotten more stuff about trees than I'll ever know......

besides...it ain't braggin' if it's true........

 

[Paradox]

My poor dead juniper that got worked over too hard at a workshop by someone who supposidly knows what he is doing (well known bonsai professional who shall remain nameless) can attest to the "too much at once" and "there is no such thing as instant bonsai" thing.

What a nice trunk it had but alas it is firewood now. Reluctant to do another workshop for now. Definitely will never do one with that guy again.

 

[Dav4]

My poor dead juniper that got worked over too hard at a workshop by someone who supposidly knows what he is doing (well known bonsai professional who shall remain nameless) can attest to the "too much at once" and "there is no such thing as instant bonsai" thing.

What a nice trunk it had but alas it is firewood now. Reluctant to do another workshop for now. Definitely will never do one with that guy again.

Names with pics or it didn't happen...

 

[M. Frary]

The trees at the Cup were not created instantly,

How not? They were collected then styled,crammed into pots then shown. As close to instant as you can get.
. I don't count age in the ground or in the grow box or whatever. They weren't even bonsai until they were put into bonsai pots. More like pre bonsai.
To me a 200 year old bonsai is one that's been a bonsai for 200 years. Not a 20p year old wild caught tree crammed into a bonsai pot then wired.
You can also find trees in nurseries that can be turned into instant bonsai. In 10 to 20 years they will be more refined too.

 

[coh]

You do realize that most of those trees have been trained for at least 5 years (at least from what I remember). In the right hands, it's obviously possible to (1) collect, (2) get healthy/reduce roots, (3) put in bonsai pot, and (4) style the crown in that time frame. If a tree has sufficient growth on it, someone who knows what they are doing (i.e. not you and I )could easily style that growth into something that looks good. Maybe not as good as a tree that has been trained for decades or hundreds of years, maybe not as refined as that...but still pretty damned impressive. And they'll only get better with time.

So what is the issue here...other than smoke just trolling for entertainment or being pissed off because after 30 years of work, none of his trees would be good enough for such a show? Didn't we go through all this a few months ago?

I don't recall the definition of bonsai including anything about how long a tree has been styled...

 

[Andrew Robson]

You do realize that most of those trees have been trained for at least 5 years (at least from what I remember). In the right hands, it's obviously possible to (1) collect, (2) get healthy/reduce roots, (3) put in bonsai pot, and (4) style the crown in that time frame. If a tree has sufficient growth on it, someone who knows what they are doing (i.e. not you and I )could easily style that growth into something that looks good. Maybe not as good as a tree that has been trained for decades or hundreds of years, maybe not as refined as that...but still pretty damned impressive. And they'll only get better with time.

So what is the issue here...other than smoke just trolling for entertainment or being pissed off because after 30 years of work, none of his trees would be good enough for such a show? Didn't we go through all this a few months ago?

I don't recall the definition of bonsai including anything about how long a tree has been styled...

Couldn't have summed it up better myself!!!

 

[M. Frary]

I don't recall the definition of bonsai including anything about how long a tree has been styled...

But this is a thread about instant bonsai is it not?
When is a tree a bonsai? When it's been styled once? Popped into a bonsai pot? When it's shown?
If all three things happen in a years time that's as close to instant as you get.

(i.e. not you and I

Why not? You do know how to wire a tree.
What one man can do,another man can do. Don't sell yourself short. I'd love to wire one of these trees to make into an instant bonsai.

 

[jriddell88]

You do realize that most of those trees have been trained for at least 5 years (at least from what I remember). In the right hands, it's obviously possible to (1) collect, (2) get healthy/reduce roots, (3) put in bonsai pot, and (4) style the crown in that time frame. If a tree has sufficient growth on it, someone who knows what they are doing (i.e. not you and I )could easily style that growth into something that looks good. Maybe not as good as a tree that has been trained for decades or hundreds of years, maybe not as refined as that...but still pretty damned impressive. And they'll only get better with time.

So what is the issue here...other than smoke just trolling for entertainment or being pissed off because after 30 years of work, none of his trees would be good enough for such a show? Didn't we go through all this a few months ago?

I don't recall the definition of bonsai including anything about how long a tree has been styled...

Burn

 

[sorce]

Milestoner.....

A long time Ago......I started finding entertainment here......

And it Continues!

Lol. Lol. Lol.

Sorce

 

[coh]

Burn

Yeah...did I really write that 30 year comment? That was kind of mean spirited. I guess it doesn't matter since he has me on ignore, but still uncalled for. In any case, sorry Smoke!

 

[armetisius]

Time is different with a Swiss Watch! Sorce

Maybe that is the problem.
And all this time I thought
it was the smoke putting
the holes in time.

 

[Andrew Robson]

But this is a thread about instant bonsai is it not?
When is a tree a bonsai? When it's been styled once? Popped into a bonsai pot? When it's shown?
If all three things happen in a years time that's as close to instant as you get.

Bonsai is simply just a tree in a pot. When looking at the question of what make a good bonsai, you have to break it down to all the individual parts of a bonsai. The most important part of a bonsai is the trunk. Having a good trunk is everything in bonsai, for example, that's why Boon's 30-point grading scale has 10 points for the trunk (5 for branching, 5 for nebari, 5 for pot choice, and 5 for overall aesthetic). You can have a tree with great branching, great nebari, and a great pot, but if it has a bad trunk, its ruins it all.

Why not? You do know how to wire a tree.
What one man can do,another man can do. Don't sell yourself short. I'd love to wire one of these trees to make into an instant bonsai.

I believe what he meant is we don't have the training to do that type of work. Yes, we can learn a lot ourselves, but its nothing compared to studying with a master on a daily basis.