Bonsai & Bioactive Terrariums

[B.Samedi]

Though I've only recently made an account, I thought this may be a more gen discussion-esque thread.

I've been making and maintaining bioactive terrariums for ~5 years now (the largest of which houses the snake in my pfp) and, since I started getting serious about bonsai this year, I've desperately wanted to incourporate bonsai into my next bioactive terrarium I'm gearing up to build next year. I've looked around on this forum and a couple others (namely some herpetology-specific ones) to see what info is already out there. Though I believe I have been able to source some good info, I thought I'd shoot you guys my thought process and see if anyone wanted to weigh in.

1. Tree Species: from everything I've read up, I have been leaning toward Ficus microcarpa as it sounds like it will be most suited for terrarium life. Though the sap is likely toxic to any animals in the terrarium, I plan on using carnivores/insectivores that wouldn't be big enough damaging the tree. My only concern would be my own pruning; depending on amount of sap leakage, I worry it could somehow impact the terrariums inhabitants. Other species I was thinking of was Jaboticaba, but there isn't as much informaiton on them compared to ficus when it comes to herpetological toxicity and suitibility for terrarium growth. I have a money tree (which ik are non-toxic) but a) I already like that tree's current setup and b) it doesnt have the same 'bonsai' vibe imo... I also have a not-bonsai-styled Schefflera, but from what I read about their sap, I'd have the same issue as w/ a ficus... Thoughts on these species? Any other tree species recs?

2. Animal Species (& Fertilizer): As mentioned, I would want to incorporate fauna with the lowest likelihood to damage the tree, and vice versa. For the bioactive build, I would need some detritivores (usually just generic temperate springtails and one of the less-than-voracious isopod species). The terrarium would likely house a dart or tree frog colony, maybe a smooth green snake or day geckco, but that would be a lot later once the terrarium is established and cycling. I know this may not be the forum for it, but does anyone have experience/insight with regard to springtails and isopods with different tree species? From what the bioactive terrarium world says, springtails should only eat fungi (so maybe bad for mycorrhiza?) and the more docile isopods should only eat live plant roots if they were forced to by lack of available detritus. Thoughts? Also, with the detritivores in mind, I assume I don't need to fertilize the soil. Inorganic fertilizer would be a big no anyways, since it could harm the fungi and fauna that the bioactive cycling relies on. Would I need an organic fertilizer supplement outside of what starter mix I use to get the terrarium cycling?

3. Other Plant Species: Don't think this will be the bigggest issue, so long as I manage the epiphytic plants' growth so as to not strangle the tree...

4. Soil: Depending on the tree species, I think I can get away with my usual terrarium mix of peat moss/coco coir, fine charchoal, volcanic tephra, and some additives like sphagnum moss, wood chips, and leaf litter. The ratio is usually 'vibe-based' when I'm setting up the terrarium, but I think they're near-equal mixes save for the sphagnum/wood chips/litter. I would be open to suggesitons tho for stuff I should include/omit from the blend. The only things I believe I should avoid is pumice/perlite, as many in the bio terrarium world say that there is significant risk of it somehow entering the reptile/amphibians' digestive track and causing impaction, at least with greater likelihood than the other soil components (in terms of being swallowed and/or causing impaction). I guess this question goes along with #1; which tree species should go best with these soil constraints and/or how can I modify my soil to best accomodate a bonsai while still ticking the boxes for a bioactive terrarium (namely that they are fauna-friendly, both to the big guy and the little detritivores).

5. Terrarium Dimensions: I have a presently-unused 18 x 18 x 24" terrarium I was leaning towad for my next build, but now that I've really got the bonsai bioactive terrarium in my head I'm willing to build one out that would be larger if needed. The only real considerations for size is the drainage layer will take up 2-3" of the terrarium floor (not including the actual soil). Even with the 18 x 18 x 24", tho, if I need ~3" for drainage layer, ~2" for soil, and try for ~6" between the canopy and roof of the terrarium, that still leaves me with ~13" of bonsai height (so slightly more than a shohin)

6. Light: In most of my setups, I usually use both grow light for the plants and a UV bulb for the reptile/amphibian. In my big snake tank I use Fluval Plant 3.0, but the PPFD for that is ~100-200 μmol/m2/s at ~6" which is fine for most terrarium plants but likely not a tree... I have some Sansi grow lights that can get to around 600 μmol/m2/s at the same height. I worry about using cannabis-growery-level LED lights as they may be excessively bright for the animals (even the Sansi can be a bit much but I think that something like a Mars Hydro would be way over, not sure tho as I haven't actually seen the lux output in person). Would love to get some second opinions on this... Also, in terms of UV, I assime a 5% UVB / 30% UVA bulb should be harmless to a healthy tropical bonsai, but please let me know if I'm wrong in that!

7. Humidity: For most reptiles/amphibians, I would likely need to set up an automatic daily misting system and want the humidity to stay within 70-100%. I assume that I would really not be watering the bonsai at all in this case, but how much risk am I running for fungal infection of the tree? I haven't had anything like powdery mildew in my other terrariums with similar humidity, though none had a tree growing in them lol

8. Temperature: I usually use either a DHP (infared heating bulb) or an under-tank heater; I may go with an under-tank heating pad and just stick it to one of the sides to give the critters enough of a temp gradient while being the least likely to scorch the bonsai tree leafs. Should I be concerned for the roots/base of the tree? The heating pad wouldn't get above 80°F but (depending on fauna) it would be placed so that the heat provided would eminate across the topsoil.

I know that this is a lot and that y'all would likely only be able to assist with a portion of the info I need to make this project a success, but I tried to limit this post's perspective to the bonsai of it all. Basically, given the afformentioned constraints to make the terrarium bioactice and house some species of small reptile/amphibian, what can I get away with in terms of bonsai? Or, conversely, how SoL am I with this idea from the get-go (from a bonsai perspectice, ofc)... Any anecdotes/personal experiences/informed opitions/insights would be greatly appreciated!

 

[_#1_]

There was someone planning the same thing as you last year, but housing these rare newts. I don't believe that person ever updated if they even started the project. Give this a try and see what could be made of it.

But please, do update here with pics. We all can learn a thing or two.

 

[leatherback]

Keep in mind that your questions are not really bonsai questions, but rather just growing plants related, under very specific circumstances.
I feel you might have better input on a terrarium-related form as the challenges that you will run into are not challenges people growing bonsai run into. As an example, we keep trees in small pots with the explicit intent to grow things that look like small trees. They are in very open substrate, watered dairly, fertilized every 1-4 weeks and go through phases of growing out, pruning back and wiring.

You seem to want to plant these directly in the aquarium landscape, not fertilize and create a sort-of self-sustaining system. Very different conceptual framework.

In general, a ficus would a good option as these can grow in very nutrient-poor situations, and deal with lack of airflow and high atmospheric humidity well.

 

[Glaucus]

I think an azalea could be cool. They work fine with the usual sphagnum moss of peat that is added. They like the high humidity, which I think is needed by the reptiles, especially for molting. And some accounts say they do not die from lack of seasonality, though I am not sure. They also like to have exposed roots. Issue could be how to be able to water it thoroughly without the rest of the water leaking into the reptile habitat. But with near 100% humidity, maybe they do not need watering. For seedlings with 100% humidity, I got air roots that grew quite long. But those were months old from seeds. Not more woody mature bonsailike azaleas. They do not need cannabis level lights at all. They are shrubs, not trees, that can grow in partial shade. I tried to measure the PPFD I use for good seedling growth, but I am not exactly sure what it is. Between 200 to 600 μmol/m2/s is likely very good. But I am not sure about the below 100 ones. But I use very long days, which can be the solution to get the DLI needed when the PPFD is at a lower range. Pretty sure I can go lower than what I did and still keep the plants very healthy. I don't use UV bulbs. I know in cannabis they say there is a benefit in slightly stressing the plant so it makes more secondary metabolites. 30% of the photons end up being UV B? Or is it a lamp that produces visible light plus those percentages UV B? UV light will be slightly damaging to the plant. But that is the same how UV light is outdoors. and the plants create pigments to block them, repair any potential DNA damage, and they don't get cancer like animals do.

For me, the problem I would expect is getting fungus gnats. Maybe your reptile eats them and that fixes it? Maybe I need to add one then to my indoor azalea setups.

 

[gooeytek]

subscribed. This is fascinating.

 

[Michael P]

Fascinating is right! I keep bonsai, planted aquaria, and in the past herps and terraria. Let me take a stab at this.

1. You want something bullet-proof and F. microcarpa is as close as you can get. It may be worth trying to find one of the semi-dwarf cultivars like 'Green Island' or 'Green Mound' just because controlling size will be easier. S. arbicola is just as easy, but the size will be more difficult to control. I have worked with its dwarf cultivar 'Luseane', but it doesn't seem to respond as well to bonsai culture.

2. Re animals and toxicity, the sap is meant to be irritating and foul tasting, not deadly. Sap bleed from Ficus can be controlled or diluted by spraying with water while pruning. Schefflera do not bleed nearly as much. I think reptiles would be more resistant to toxic sap than amphibians because of their less permeable skin.

Given how much trouble we sometimes have controlling invertebrate pests on bonsai, I doubt isopods and springtails would have any trouble.

There are many mild organic fertilizers that would be safe if needed. See # 4 below.

3. No problem.

4. Bonsai really do need specialized soil. I think watering will be a problem because of drainage. Watering does much more than supply moisture. As gravity pulls water through the soil, air and oxygen follow it.

Keeping a bonsai in a small enclosure with poor access will make all the routine tasks of pruning, watering, fertilizing and pest control (if needed) much more difficult. I suggest you grow the tree in a pot of some sort that can be removed from the terrarium for maintenance. This could be a bonsai pot if you want it to be visible, or some cheap plastic thing if the layout of the terrarium permits you to conceal it.

If you are worried about ingestion of the bonsai substrate by animals, just keep it covered with a good layer of sphagnum moss, with is a common practice anyway.

5. Bigger is better, if only because bonsai need space around them for aesthetics.

6. Most of my artificial light experience is from planted aquaria. In that application, 200 PPFD at the water surface would be considered high, but aquatic plants are often facultative low-light plants. Get a dimmable LED fixture with a range of 100 PPFD to 600 PPFD if you can find one.

7. Ficus will love 70 to 100% relative humidity and will reward you with aerial roots--banyan style!

8. Ditto for a steamy 80F environment, either air temperature or bottom heat.

Years ago on an aquarium forum I moderate, one member created a beautiful paludarium depicting a (bonsai) forest on a river bank. I vote for the smooth green snake to give a garden-of-Eden-temptation-of-Eve vibe., but crab apples won't work. Good luck and please show us photos!

 

[B.Samedi]

Michael, let me just say you are an absolute g for this response...

1. You want something bullet-proof and F. microcarpa is as close as you can get... 'Green Island'...

7. Ficus will love 70 to 100% relative humidity and will reward you with aerial roots--banyan style!

- I need no more convincing that that... And, on your note about the snake, according to wikipedia there is some depictions of the forbidden fruit as a fig lol. I've seen Schefflera in bioactive terrariums and I know there are 'banyan style' Schefflera growing in nature in Hawai'i, though, as you mention, ficus may be easier to train into a bonsai style given the spacial constraints of a terrarium.

4. Bonsai really do need specialized soil.

- On this note, one of the benefits of the isopods is that their burrow systems naturally aerate the soil, but I do get what you mean by the mechanical action of water flow dragging oxygen to the rootbed. I do think that the potted idea does solve this issue (and having such removable pots built into the terrariums hardscape is a common practice). Given that the terrarium will need a drainage layer regardless, I could find/make a pond basket with the right dimensions and just use that instead of a screen/mesh...?

100 PPFD to 600 PPFD

If this is the range, Fluval may be an ez option, though on the lower side... I may wait and see the output of the more powerful lights I already ownand decide post-setup/pre-animal if I should scale down the power or not.

This was very helpful and definitely got my brain turning... but I think this might be the most managable to move forward. Though I like @Glaucus' idea of the azalea, I do think that F. microcarpa is the least likely to die being put through all of this (especially given @leatherback's note on their hardiness in less-than-ideal nutrient substrate).

Though no animals will be able to call it a home until sometime next year, I think this may be enough into to at least get the ball rolling. I will most definitely be posting any updates. Depending on what I have available in storage and (affordable) specimen I can find, I may have some updates in a couple months... we shall see!

 

[Glaucus]

Aren't there many many species of plants known to work great with those many people that have dabbled and excelled in terraria the last few decades? Any house plant should work, which is also the ficus.
Most house plants are not usually bonsai subjects, though. If you have a closed terrarium with high humidity, then just sticking in some shoots of azaleas and bundling with them sphagnum should probably allow them to root, and then grow.
Though it is maybe easier to grow a healthy plant first, then introduce it. I myself might even try it with seeds. It is just that I have grown azaleas from seeds into 20cm long plants inside 100% humidity domes using LED lights. After that, I hardened them off. That gets pretty close to what a terrarium would be like.

The dormancy may or may not be an issue. But if it is, you probably get to enjoy the azalea for at least a while. It all depends on what kind of next step you want to take the terrarium hobby into when exploring a more bonsai side. Do you want a small pit inside the terrarium? That is then nearly and quite artificially styled? As if it is made by a fairy or something living inside your terrarium. Or you want it to be natural, but more woody.

Note that azaleas are toxic plants, as are many plants. So no idea what that means if you introduce a pet.

 

[Tycoss]

I have kept ficus in gecko and dart frog terrariums before and they have done very well. I plan on trying something more involved soon. It's certainly possible, but pruning and root work in a terrarium might be challenging. I'm excited to see where you go with this.

 

[B.Samedi]

Note that azaleas are toxic plants

Oop lol didn't know that... omg and the toxin is a Na+ channel agonist, that's like some of the poison dart frog species... ironic

But, aside from that, yeah most all houseplants make good terrarium plants, bioactive or otherwise. I have a bunch with monsera, pothos, philodendron brazil, tradescantia (which I think is mildly toxic but eh, no issue yet), etc. Was also thinking of propigating one of my nepenthes plants into this new one too. As you say, most houseplants (and therefore any indoor/tropical bonsai species) can survive in terrarium conditions theoretically, my only pause was with the application/translation of bonsai technique to a terrarium-bound plant. Hence my agreeing with @Michael P that ficus may be the right type of abuse tolerant to work best (especially those dwarf varieties mentioned, def gonna do some research on them).

My thoughts are that it is a longitudinal game; what tree and what amended/tweaked practices can I employ to make it so it lasts more than a year or so and is still bonsai-ing. With what some of the peeps on this thread have mentioned I'm def optimistic!

 

[B.Samedi]

I have kept ficus in gecko and dart frog terrariums before and they have done very well. I plan on trying something more involved soon. It's certainly possible, but pruning and root work in a terrarium might be challenging. I'm excited to see where you go with this.

Would love to hear more on your experience. It sounds like you're talking in the past tesne -- how did these ficuses (and your gecko/darties) turn out?

 

[Michael P]

On this note, one of the benefits of the isopods is that their burrow systems naturally aerate the soil, but I do get what you mean by the mechanical action of water flow dragging oxygen to the rootbed. I do think that the potted idea does solve this issue (and having such removable pots built into the terrariums hardscape is a common practice). Given that the terrarium will need a drainage layer regardless, I could find/make a pond basket with the right dimensions and just use that instead of a screen/mesh...?

I've recently become interested in isopods and was surprised to learn that so many are brightly colored. Please tell me more!

What kind of drainage layer are you planning? When I had a paludarium with fire bellied toads, I used pea gravel with a coir layer and then a planting soil over that. Imagining how you would build this, placing the pot/basket directly on the drainage layer then putting soil around it seems like it would work. Do you plan any kind of sump so that you can remove excess water from the drainage layer? Bonsai might require enough water to overfill the drainage layer. In my paludarium there was no impermeable barrier between the drainage layer and the aquatic portion, just dry stacked stones to retain drainage, soil, and plants. By raising or lowering water level I could control saturation of the drainage layer and soil. I was using anubias and crytocorynes that like saturated soil.

A cut-down pond basket or other mesh container would work. The only problem I see is when roots grow through the mesh into the surrounding soil (if present) it would cause a lot of disturbance when you need to take the bonsai out.

Toxic plants are an interesting subject As a landscape architect for 40 years, I've researched this a lot. Few species of plants are toxic on contact. Many species of plants are mildly toxic when ingested. From the plant's perspective, being toxic has only one purpose: to keep animals from eating you. Toxicity is almost always paired with extremely horrible taste and irritation to mucus membranes. One nibble is enough of a warning. If you search for a list of toxic house plants, almost all the common easily grown species are on it: English ivy, pothos, snake plant, ficus, poinsettia all have dire warnings about toxicity if eaten. But it takes a huge dose to be lethal, and they taste so bad and are so irritating that it is almost impossible to eat enough to make you sick. So yes, azaleas are toxic, as are yaupon hollies. daffodils, foxgloves, and rubarb.

 

[B.Samedi]

Usually use LECA for the drainage layer. Normally put a screen above that then the substrate blend (all that good stuff I mentioned in #4). In this instance, the modified pond basket would be used in lieu of the screen. So the pond basket itself would act as the terrarium's false bottom. I was not initially thinking about using a sump or spigot to remove excess water, as usually it diffuses into the soil as the plants draw water up. In some other terrariums, pothos and monsera roots will pierce the mesh and grow into the drainage layer. These are under conditions, however, where the soil isn't being drenched; rahter, the soil is kept less-that-saturated but not dry, and the drainage layer is to prevent a bed of sopping soil.

My gut reaction is that, given that root rot is not caused by too much water (per se) but rather not enough oxygen, part of me is hopeful that the drainage layer won't provide an issue if I can get away with not watering the tree as much as a normal outdoor bonsai. If I can keep the substrate moist but saturated, the tree should only be upset by the lack of dry cycle (and subsequent pulldown of O2... but what if isopod = O2?...). Though I haven't grown ficus as a bonsai, from my limited experince with 'indoor' (tropical) bonsai, they prefer a more consistently-moist soil that doesn't dry out too much save for the topsoil. This may be figured out on the job, as it's likely something that I will have to see in incraments how far I can get away with... But removing the tree + basket in this instance wouldn't be the absolute worst given that a) I build the hardscape and position the other plants in a way where I can remove the basket (basically entire floor) and b) have a temp tank I put my critter(s) in when I need to do some big seasonal chores.

As for azalea toxicity, google tells me that even the nectar has grayanotoxins. Semi-permiable skin (for amphibians) + the relative size of the reptile/amphibian + not being able to really avoid the plant given the terrarium's walls give me pause. My anxious brain conjures up floppy baby syndrome (its a medical term I swear don't laugh) and how a not-of-concern amount of botulinum toxin ingested by an adult would impair an infant. Ficus sap being a noxious irritant seems like the lesser of two evils compared to neurotoxins like grayanotoxins, but maybe I'm catastrophizing lol

I've recently become interested in isopods and was surprised to learn that so many are brightly colored. Please tell me more!

When I'm establishing isopods into a tank I can literally watch them for hours. They get to be bold at night and their antics can be entertaining and they devour table scraps. But once they're established you usually don't see them as often, given they build their burrows well away from light sources. I usually use P. pruinosus since they're ez and I like the look of the powder orange and oreo morphs lol. But if you're not housing any animals in the terrarium, might as well go for the crazy ones like P. laevis -- they are big and bold enough to attack small reptiles and amphibians as their numbers get large (and the dairy cow morph looks like a more intense verison of P. pruinosus 'oreo')

 

[Tycoss]

The terrariums are still running. I removed the ficus cuttings from my dart frog tank because they were shading out the ground cover and cluttering things a bit too much, but they did well in there for a couple months. The tank looks like this now:
It's viewable from two sides and has a pair of tinctorius cobalt.

 

[Tycoss]

The only terrarium that still has ficus in it is this 12" by 12" that I use to culture isopods and grow out baby crested geckos.

It's a ficus salicifolia. The base is starting to thicken nicely, but it needs a trim soon.
Here's its most recent non invertebrate inhabitant.

 

[Tycoss]

I may do a desert vivarium with a forest of P. Afra cuttings and a tropical vivarium with a forest of tiger bark ficus cuttings in the near future, as I have been gifted some by @HENDO, another member here.

I need to make sure that the inhabitants won't wreck them. My kids keep crested geckos, ball pythons and a tiger salamander, all of which tend to trample or dig up delicate plants. I'm open to suggestions, but probably small geckos or a dwarf tarantula for the desert and small day geckos or more dart frogs for the tropical one.

 

[moreateleven]

I may do a desert vivarium with a forest of P. Afra cuttings and a tropical vivarium with a forest of tiger bark ficus cuttings in the near future, as I have been gifted some by @HENDO, another member here.

I need to make sure that the inhabitants won't wreck them. My kids keep crested geckos, ball pythons and a tiger salamander, all of which tend to trample or dig up delicate plants. I'm open to suggestions, but probably small geckos or a dwarf tarantula for the desert and small day geckos or more dart frogs for the tropical one.

Maybe some blue death feigning beetles for the desert terrarium? Theyre very affordable and among the longest living beetles in the world.

 

[Michael P]

@Tycoss your terraria look great! I have a Portulacaria forest and once the trees are well established they are pretty sturdy. Should be gecko-proof.

@moreateleven could you post a link to a good isopod website? I have lots of questions but don't want to go far off topic.

Last month I gave away a 20 gallon leaker, now I wish I hadn't.

 

[moreateleven]

@Tycoss your terraria look great! I have a Portulacaria forest and once the trees are well established they are pretty sturdy. Should be gecko-proof.

@moreateleven could you post a link to a good isopod website? I have lots of questions but don't want to go far off topic.

Last month I gave away a 20 gallon leaker, now I wish I hadn't.

Hm, I don't know much about isopods, I was talking beetles, sorry!

 

[Michael P]

Sorry, that was meant for the op, @B.Samedi .