Bjorn Apprenticeship

[rockm]

Thanks for that link, I had no idea the FLSA decided that interns for "for profit" organizations could be categorized as "may be not "employees"". Which in my mind is ridiculous. Also, that "test" leaves a lot of open ground for the FLSA to change their decision if they conduct an analysis and feel like the intern is an actual employee.

I don't know, I guess that a 20 yr old that their family can support while doing this would be fine, but the responsibility that is requested by Bjorn is not aimed at 20 yr old's, at least not from this generation (yes, there are a few exceptions). I guess he will need an apprentice that is retired or have money and no obligations, or someone that, as I said before can be supported by his/her family while they do this apprenticeship.

I don't think retirees are the target here. It is 20 somethings looking for a profession. This job is probably too physically demanding for most folks over 65 and retired.

Bjorn and Ryan cut loose and went to Japan at that age. This path is well-worn for younger people--The apprentice program at the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum has been filled with younger people. It has had several folks who went on to become 'professionals.'

National Bonsai Apprenticeship — National Bonsai Foundation

www.bonsai-nbf.org

 

[HorseloverFat]

The "Master Craftsman/Apprentice Relationship" makes MUCH less sense to not only people raised in Western Society....

But also those raised in privilege...

These 'ways'(any "master trade") traditionally, in WESTERN civilization, but definitely not ONLY, are passed down generationally.

So your KIDS/nephews/nieces ect... learn the true specifics of the craft while being "used for free labor"..

This exists heavily in secluded portions of the East where you have the "Pottery Villages" or "Calligraphy villages"....

So if you want to learn that Master's "Craft".... you have to learn the way THEY do.. THROUGH the labor. Just like their family would.

Definitely NOT for everyone...

MORE Westerners will have problems with this 'plan'..

And even more of those who come from "comfort" will ALSO have problems.

If you have problems, don't apply.

But understand the reasons and process.

Bjorns not gonna kidnap you... it's ok.

 

[Mikecheck123]

For those interested. Quite a commitment!

Eisei-en Apprenticeship Application – Eisei-en

bjornbjorholm.com

Holy shit. They're not looking for an apprentice, they're looking for a slave.

 

[Mikecheck123]

The "Master Craftsman/Apprentice Relationship" makes MUCH less sense to not only people raised in Western Society....

But also those raised in privilege...

These 'ways'(any "master trade") traditionally, in WESTERN civilization, but definitely not ONLY, are passed down generationally.

So your KIDS/nephews/nieces ect... learn the true specifics of the craft while being "used for free labor"..

This exists heavily in secluded portions of the East where you have the "Pottery Villages" or "Calligraphy villages"....

So if you want to learn that Master's "Craft".... you have to learn the way THEY do.. THROUGH the labor. Just like their family would.

Definitely NOT for everyone...

MORE Westerners will have problems with this 'plan'..

And even more of those who come from "comfort" will ALSO have problems.

If you have problems, don't apply.

But understand the reasons and process.

Bjorns not gonna kidnap you... it's ok.

You just have to watch all the cars Daniel waxed in Karate Kid to understand.

 

[HorseloverFat]

I don’t think it sounds unreasonable at all. Hell, sounds like a walk in the park compared to some jobs.

If he were based in Colorado I’d be tempted to quit my job and give it a shot

YOU.. live in Colorado?!,??!??!?!



I never knew.

 

[HorseloverFat]

You just have to watch all the cars Daniel waxed in Karate Kid to understand.

I watched, "Kung -Fu"

I still never saw Karate Kid.



(TV/movies where an OCCASIONAL event.. so they posed less interest to me during childhood.)

 

[HankDio]

I'm taken aback by how hostile some responses have been to this internship. As a millennial, I have been BOMBARDED with offers for unpaid internships, requiring long commutes and not offering stipends for lodging or food. Those kinds of internships are both risky and for many, including myself, they were not worth while as I did not want to trade my time to learn cooperate skills that only amount to making money for people who are already rich.

Just can't help but feel the nay-sayers are taking this idea with as much bad faith as possible. As if these strict requisites and expectations aren't put in place to ensure that the only people who apply are people who want to be bonsai professionals, and seek artistic and philosophical fulfillment through intensive practice and observation.

Corporatism has poisoned the concept of self-actualization in the West, we have ingrained in our minds that our time is inherently worth something to others, even if what we truly seek is the knowledge that others possess.

 

[KikurageOtomo]

These 'ways'(any "master trade") traditionally, in WESTERN civilization, but definitely not ONLY, are passed down generationally.

So your KIDS/nephews/nieces ect... learn the true specifics of the craft while being "used for free labor"..

This exists heavily in secluded portions of the East where you have the "Pottery Villages" or "Calligraphy villages"....

So if you want to learn that Master's "Craft".... you have to learn the way THEY do.. THROUGH the labor. Just like their family would.

They would also be living with their family in that context, not receiving a 3 month unpaid residency followed by a several year period in which you are expected to find your own domicile and transportation on what is sub-minimum wage when you account for the hours asked (A flat 40k a year, Six day minimum work week with no defined hours for a day, undefined stretches of time in which you recieve no days off). Lets not forget Eisei-en is located immediately outside of the Nashville area and inflation has accelerated more this year than it has any other individual year in the last two decades, with those two factors alone you are asking this individual to live in adverse poverty. Naturally there is value to having material of a high caliber to practice upon while you self educate, but based on the 'position' description it sounds like Bjorn needs an Assistant Manager, not to have a barely compensated apprentice expected to manage his establishment for prolonged stints of time.

 

[rockm]

I'm taken aback by how hostile some responses have been to this internship. As a millennial, I have been BOMBARDED with offers for unpaid internships, requiring long commutes and not offering stipends for lodging or food. Those kinds of internships are both risky and for many, including myself, they were not worth while as I did not want to trade my time to learn cooperate skills that only amount to making money for people who are already rich.

Just can't help but feel the nay-sayers are taking this idea with as much bad faith as possible. As if these strict requisites and expectations aren't put in place to ensure that the only people who apply are people who want to be bonsai professionals, and seek artistic and philosophical fulfillment through intensive practice and observation.

Corporatism has poisoned the concept of self-actualization in the West, we have ingrained in our minds that our time is inherently worth something to others, even if what we truly seek is the knowledge that others possess.

Having a college-age son opened my eyes to unpaid internships becoming mostly "normal" these days for younger people, particularly for those just starting out. You have to start somewhere, and now that start can be for free in exchange for the experience. This internship offers a way to do that in an unconventional, but rewarding, career (if you can stand the physical demands).

 

[Wulfskaar]

I'd take the job if I were...

homeless
fresh out of prison
on the run
an illegal immigrant
a legal immigrant with no language skills

Anyone who takes this "internship" is desperate.

 

[rockm]

They would also be living with their family in that context, not receiving a 3 month unpaid residency followed by a several year period in which you are expected to find your own domicile and transportation on what is sub-minimum wage when you account for the hours asked (A flat 40k a year, Six day minimum work week with no defined hours for a day, undefined stretches of time in which you recieve no days off). Lets not forget Eisei-en is located immediately outside of the Nashville area and inflation has accelerated more this year than it has any other individual year in the last two decades, with those two factors alone you are asking this individual to live in adverse poverty. Naturally there is value to having material of a high caliber to practice upon while you self educate, but based on the 'position' description it sounds like Bjorn needs an Assistant Manager, not to have a barely compensated apprentice expected to manage his establishment for prolonged stints of time.

um, err, don't really understand the bonsai biz do ya...Yes an assistant manager would be GREAT for a small business like Eisei En. But flat $40,000 a year, plus insurance costs, etc. That's quite a commitment, which is probably far beyond the means of this small business. Yeah, this is a cheap way to get one, but many small businesses are doing similar things -- only not telling workers ahead of time of the downside (which is pretty evident in the job description here)

 

[HankDio]

I'd take the job if I were...

homeless
fresh out of prison
on the run
an illegal immigrant
a legal immigrant with no language skills

Anyone who takes this "internship" is desperate.

Desperate to learn, maybe?

 

[HorseloverFat]

it sounds like Bjorn needs an Assistant Manager, not to have a barely compensated apprentice expected to manage his establishment for prolonged stints of time.

It WOULD sound like that.. depending on YOUR position.

Like I said, not for everyone.. certainly not for me..

Yaaay! Wisconsin!

I'm up Right between Green Bay and Door County.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Desperate to learn, maybe?

Yes. There are other ways to learn besides pimping yourself for free.

If you want to do that, go for it. I'm not stopping you. I won't be doing it without fair pay.

 

[KikurageOtomo]

um, err, don't really understand the bonsai biz do ya...Yes an assistant manager would be GREAT for a small bi like Eisei En. But flat $40,000 a year, plus insurance costs, etc. That's quite a commitment, which is probably far beyond the means of this small business. Yeah, this is a cheap way to get one, but many small businesses are doing similar things -- only not telling workers ahead of time of the downside (which is pretty evident in the job description here)

I'd argue you are genuinely under representing the combined income of his; intensive course, streaming platform, speaking fees, guided tours and sales.

 

[Mikecheck123]

with as much bad faith as possible

Nope, I really believe what I said.

I think there's two things that really rub me the wrong way:

1) the unpaid trial period.

2) the way that this totally American dude wants someone to act like he's the emperor.

Maybe that's the norm in Japan.

Laughable in fkin Tennessee.

 

[Scorpius]

What bothers me the most is you basically teach yourself.

 

[Mikecheck123]

What bothers me the most is you basically teach yourself.

Yea that is super duper weird.

 

[HankDio]

Yes. There are other ways to learn besides pimping yourself for free.

If you want to do that, go for it. I'm not stopping you. I won't be doing it without fair pay.

So you're of the opinion that Bjorn ought to pay you for the privilege to teach you? Some might find that idea conceited.

Nope, I really believe what I said.

I think there's two things that really rub me the wrong way:

1) the unpaid trial period.

2) the way that this totally American dude wants someone to act like he's the emperor.

Maybe that's the norm in Japan.

Laughable in fkin Tennessee.

Here in VA it is the norm for mid-to-high skill candidates, only they want you to commute up to DC (3 hours either way from Richmond on a good day), work for nothing except experience, and you get to go back home and sleep for two hours so you can work your midnight shift at the warehouse. You are projecting why you THINK Bjorn presents the position this way, when in reality if you don't like the descritption you are the exact kind of person who is not being sought for the apprenticeship.

 

[rockm]

I'd take the job if I were...

homeless
fresh out of prison
on the run
an illegal immigrant
a legal immigrant with no language skills

Anyone who takes this "internship" is desperate.

I'd argue you are genuinely under representing the combined income of his; intensive course, streaming platform, speaking fees, guided tours and sales.

I'd argue you are seriously overestimating all of those.