Big bald cypress 911

[Dav4]

The tub you're soaking the pot in is a good size training pot for that sized cypress, and you'd probably be able to bury the claw shaped roots. I've got 2 of those doubled up with 50 holes drilled in the bottom. My soil mix is 1 part soil conditioner to 1 part turface. There are many mixes that work for cypress but going with just granular aggregate isn't necessary...JohnG essentially uses straight potting soil for his. I'd get it out of the tiny pot and into something bigger, deeper, and with more moisture retentive soil...and no more soaking this year as I think that can actually inhibit root growth.

 

[aml1014]

The tub you're soaking the pot in is a good size training pot for that sized cypress, and you'd probably be able to bury the claw shaped roots. I've got 2 of those doubled up with 50 holes drilled in the bottom. My soil mix is 1 part soil conditioner to 1 part turface. There are many mixes that work for cypress but going with just granular aggregate isn't necessary...JohnG essentially uses straight potting soil for his. I'd get it out of the tiny pot and into something bigger, deeper, and with more moisture retentive soil...and no more soaking this year as I think that can actually inhibit root growth.

It's been pulled from the tub already I was just soaking it for a few hours. I'd like to put it in a big pot and bury those roots but if it doesn't show any signs of recovery by end the end of next month it's going to be stored with the tropicals in my greenhouse and I'm already pressed for space as is in there lol. If it lives it probably will go into the 9gl cement tub next spring to really kick start some growth.

Aaron

 

[aml1014]

Here's a branch that is budding, I could use it as a gauge.
And some of the rot on those exposed roots.
I have a feeling this one will pull through and if it does I'll leave it for 1-2 years to reestablish itself and reveal the living veins. From there I'll be able to carve and do its first styling.

Aaron

 

[rockm]

This tree is most likely a goner. roots are simply too far gone and its too late in the season for much, if any growth. The growth you have is extremely weak and is a last gasp at survival.

From the look of the punky rotten wood, this tree has been stressed out for a very,very long time.

Also FWIW, If you're looking to help it recover, the soil you've got it in is far too fast-draining to help roots recover. The root crown is also exposed. Both of those things tend to make what roots there are dry out. Submerging the tree in a tub of water at this point won't help it much. New roots (Even on BC) tend to grow and regenerate much more quickly when they have some air circulation through the soil.

If this one were mine, I'd get a bag of regular potting soil, mix is half and half with your bonsai soil. Plant it in a deeper container, so the soil reaches at least three inches above the beginning of the root crown and then provide substantial winter protection.

I would avoid treating this as a tropical. You run the risk of pushing the tree too hard. Weak trees in constant warm humid conditions tend to develop fungal issues.

Ideally, I'd plant it out in the ground in a sunny spot for the fall and winter and make sure it's protected from wind. I'd bury the root crown and leave room at the bottom of hole for some gravel to be mixed in with the dirt. Let it be until next spring. See what happens.

 

[aml1014]

Ideally, I'd plant it out in the ground in a sunny spot for the fall and winter and make sure it's protected from wind. I'd bury the root crown and leave room at the bottom of hole for some gravel to be mixed in with the dirt. Let it be until next spring. See what happens.

This is actually a pretty good ideas and probably what I'll do. I guess I'll get it done and just see what happens next spring.

Thanks!
Aaron

 

[Cypress187]

Woooow, good luck with this one.

 

[johng]

My cruel suspicion is that the tree did TRY to grow roots each of the last 4 years, but freezing into a block of ice in winter I'd imagine that would kill any roots off. I'm honestly surprised it's toughed it out this long. Just wait and see I guess.

Aaron

I suspect it is the lack of humidity more than cold temps that are the problem here....I've seen mature BC growing in Rochester...they can handle cold!

 

[ColinFraser]

Many of those larger roots that are exposed right now are dead, so burying it deeper would've been useless to try and get feeder roots higher up.

Then where do the roots that are alive connect to the trunk?! Clearly they pass through this now exposed zone too, and they could be growing feeders higher if buried. I think you did the tree a disservice leaving so much exposed like that.
Either way, I hope it pulls through for you.

 

[aml1014]

I suspect it is the lack of humidity more than cold temps that are the problem here....I've seen mature BC growing in Rochester...they can handle cold!

But Ive always been told it's bad when trees roots freeze solid. The previous owner literally had it in a tub of water for 4 years straight with no protection in winter what so ever. We do get into the single digits here in winter generally I'm January and February. I do in stand they can take the cold, but it never gets as cold as here I'm the swamps and even if it did the earth is there to protect them.
Am I wrong in thinking this?
I'd love tour opinion on what I should do with this one.

Thanks
Aaron

 

[Dav4]

But Ive always been told it's bad when trees roots freeze solid. The previous owner literally had it in a tub of water for 4 years straight with no protection in winter what so ever. We do get into the single digits here in winter generally I'm January and February. I do in stand they can take the cold, but it never gets as cold as here I'm the swamps and even if it did the earth is there to protect them.
Am I wrong in thinking this?
I'd love tour opinion on what I should do with this one.

Thanks
Aaron

Personally, I'd pot it up as I recommended earlier (Mark basically suggested the same thing) then place it up against the foundation of your house where it will be relatively protected from sun and wind. The larger soil mass in the pot won't keep it from freezing, but it will definitely slow down the temperature changes from frozen to not frozen. The ambient heat of your house will also temper any significant temp swings.

 

[GrimLore]

My cruel suspicion is that the tree did TRY to grow roots each of the last 4 years, but freezing into a block of ice in winter I'd imagine that would kill any roots off. I'm honestly surprised it's toughed it out this long. Just wait and see I guess.

Aaron

The freezing of the root system and natural defrosting does not hurt them at all. As John G stated it certainly looks like if anything the roots were allowed to dry out to often for to long or lack of humidity. I suspect that water went rotten. I flush my bins daily to avoid that.
The few I have been growing this year I have kept the roots buried in a heavy organic mix and the pots are sitting in over 3 inches of water and will continue to be most of the winter. I will clean and sanitize the water containers in very late fall, fill them with pine horse bedding and water for the winter... They will be alive in Spring and may even require a few waterings during the winter if there is a lack of snow because the winds will dry them.

Grimmy

 

[aml1014]

I suspect that water went rotten.

It definitely did, sludgey black algae was all over the pot and tub it was in. It wasn't allowed to go dry, but it was in full sun where as I keep mine under shade cloth during summer to prevent scorch, so there is more humidity at my house then his.

Aaron

 

[GrimLore]

It definitely did, sludgey black algae was all over the pot and tub it was in. It wasn't allowed to go dry, but it was in full sun where as I keep mine under shade cloth during summer to prevent scorch, so there is more humidity at my house then his.

Aaron

You might consider letting it soak in a clean tub as you showed earlier for a few days with a fungicide in the water, rinsing it out and let it rest a day, then refill again the same way a few times. Something as simple as a sulfur powder for soaking rose and flower roots would most likely help a lot. It is also inexpensive and easy to mix at 2 1/2 tablespons per gallon.

Grimmy

 

[rockm]

But Ive always been told it's bad when trees roots freeze solid. The previous owner literally had it in a tub of water for 4 years straight with no protection in winter what so ever. We do get into the single digits here in winter generally I'm January and February. I do in stand they can take the cold, but it never gets as cold as here I'm the swamps and even if it did the earth is there to protect them.
Am I wrong in thinking this?
I'd love tour opinion on what I should do with this one.

Thanks
Aaron

My Bald cypress has roots frozen solid from about the end of December through mid-march or so here in Va. We get down into the single digits and sometimes below. I don't let it stand in water. Freezing in standing water is not a great idea. Using a frozen block of ice as winter protection is just no way to treat anything.

My BC tree originally dug for me by our own Zach Smith in the Achafalaya basin in La.

Here in Va. it's weathered single digits and sub-zero temps more than a few times in the depths of February. It is kept under eight to ten inches of hardwood mulch on the ground in the backyard. I let it get hit by repeated frosts in early November and hopefully by at least two hard freezes before it comes off the bench and under mulch the day after Thanksgiving.

It gets a lot colder and drier where you are that a Louisiana swamp. Temps below 29 or so aren't all that common in South La., or east Texas, or Florida. Average low temp for NOLA in Feb. is 43. IN colder climates they do require some protection from extremes below 25. I wouldn't leave mine out in the winter with no mulch.

 

[coh]

I suspect it is the lack of humidity more than cold temps that are the problem here....I've seen mature BC growing in Rochester...they can handle cold!

Yep, I've had one in my growing bed for several years now. It's not a particularly fast grower in this climate, but no problem with the cold.

I purchased it from a local nursery in a standard container/soil mix. I asked the owner what he did for winter protection, and he said he just put it up against the back of the building with all the other plants, with essentially no protection...other than snow, which does not provide continuous coverage most winters. I wouldn't do that with a weak tree and won't chance it once I get mine back into a container, but apparently cold isn't that big of a deal to them provided they are healthy.

Good luck with it.

 

[GrimLore]

Here in Va. it's weathered single digits and sub-zero temps more than a few times in the depths of February. It is kept under eight to ten inches of hardwood mulch on the ground in the backyard. I let it get hit by repeated frosts in early November and hopefully by at least two hard freezes before it comes off the bench and under mulch the day after Thanksgiving.

Funny thing is most places tell me my USDA is 6b although I am pretty certain it is at least 7... On that note we have never had enough cold weather to freeze the surface of the water containers more then a 16th of an inch or so and it melts shortly after daybreak Hell, 5 years ago at the old place(1/2 mile down the road) we had the grass cut and leaves mulched on January 14th! When and if we get snow it is normally gone in a day or two, if excessive snow it stays a few days but is normally all we will see that year.

Grimmy

 

[aml1014]

Funny thing is most places tell me my USDA is 6b although I am pretty certain it is at least 7... On that note we have never had enough cold weather to freeze the surface of the water containers more then a 16th of an inch or so and it melts shortly after daybreak Hell, 5 years ago at the old place(1/2 mile down the road) we had the grass cut and leaves mulched on January 14th! When and if we get snow it is normally gone in a day or two, if excessive snow it stays a few days but is normally all we will see that year.

Grimmy

We normally have very cold nights between the upper teens and lower 20s until January so no really hard freezes, but come January and February we can have cold spells were it won't go over 34° for a week or more.

Aaron

 

[aml1014]

Got home today and peeked on this guy. Well these buds are new, that was quick. Hopefully it's not stored energy but this tree changed its mood when it moved to my place immediately.
Aaron

 

[rockm]

Bud break heading into fall isn't a great thing. There is no future in the energy the tree is expending to make new foliage.

 

[aml1014]

Bud break heading into fall isn't a great thing. There is no future in the energy the tree is expending to make new foliage.

Agreed, but the fact that it's showing signs of life makes me want to try and save it. I know it's not good to put temperate trees into tropical greenhouses overwinter but that may be this ones only hope. I can worry about reacclimating it next year.

Aaron