Atlas Cedar... with apex moving away!!!

[Adair M]

Here’s a bit of a challenge. I have this Green Atlas Cedar, that’s been a bit neglected for a while. I’ll share it’s story in a follow-up post. But, I now have it at home where I can take the time to study it to figure out how to improve it.

First off, let’s take a look at it from the side:



It’s about 22 inches tall, the nebari is 8” at the soil, the trunk is 5 inches across.

See how the trunk at the apex moves to the right at the top? Hmm... That suggests the right side of this tree should be the front. Right?

Ok, let’s look at it:



Ok. Not bad, huh? But, something’s not right. This “feels” like it’s the back of the tree. There’s lots of branches obscuring a good view of the trunk. The trunk is pretty straight from this view, which is ok since it’s basically a formal upright. But it still has the juvenile bark of a young tree. (These thinks are like JWP... they take decades to develop flaky, fissured, mature bark). The trunk has very few visual scars. The branch structure is pretty symmetrical.

Now, let’s look at the other side:



Hmm... better view of the trunk! The branching is more open and asymmetric. Some mature bark is developing diwn low. The scars and wrinkles of the trunk add visual interest. Unfortunately, up near the top, there is a pruning scar that still needs healing, which the tree is doing, but it will take it a few more years.

But the biggest issue is, the apex moves away. It’s not noticeable when viewed from afar, like 15 feet or so, but you do notice when you inspect it up close.

So...

What to do?

Some options I’ve considered:

1) Restyle the tree to use the side where the apex moves forward as the front?

2) Live with it?

3) Change the potting angle a bit, and try to move the apex with wire?

4) Sell it on eBay?

What would you do?

 

[bwaynef]

I think the apex can be repositioned. I've seen how much Atlas Cedar will give w/ a little force applied. If that's not satisfactory, I'd probably go w/ #1.

 

[smjmsy00]

# 3 or live with it

 

[Cable]

I really like that last view. I'm not enamored with the "tree bowing towards you" rule so I'd be inclined to say #2. But, it is hard to say from the pics how it feels in person.

Could it be that over years of work it would eventually drift towards #3 anyway?

 

[coachspinks]

Try 3 but if that doesn't work, go with 2. That is just too cool a tree to get rid of. If these were a more common species I might suggest selling it. But these, with those dimensions, are too rare.
If neither of those appeal to you, go to #5 - sell it very inexpensively to an old guy a little south of you.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

#3 is the obvious choice. As Cable said, it looks fairly good, living with it is not the worst option.

 

[jaco94]

First photo (side view) to make the front face, the nebari is very beautiful accentuating the movement of the tree to the right by letting the branches grow a little more on the right side.

 

[johng]

Choice 5 - Put it in a round pot

 

[Adair M]

I really like that last view. I'm not enamored with the "tree bowing towards you" rule so I'd be inclined to say #2. But, it is hard to say from the pics how it feels in person.

Could it be that over years of work it would eventually drift towards #3 anyway?

There is no “rule”, per se. But, bonsai just look better when the apex moves towards the viewer, rather than away from the viewer. The “rule” is based upon observation, and is an attempt to define why some bonsai look better than others.

Some people just like to defy rules. Just because. I’m not saying you are that type, but that mentality does exist. What’s ironic that dogmatic “rule defiance” is living by a “rule”, too. LOL. But all that’s better left to another thread.

My object here is to make this into the best bonsai, visually. Not to blindly follow, or defy any rule.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

It's not a pine, so I wouldn't want it to look like one.
That means a less traditional approach is fine in my book.

 

[0soyoung]

It is irrelevant whether the apex actually comes forward or not. It only matters that it seems to --> just requires a bit of clever foliage placement (and maybe a year or two of growth management).

On a conifer, a pruning scar is not a big deal --> just requires the placement of foliage to obscure it from view = it will become less of a possible issue in time. I do note that these are a big deal in deciduous because we/I prize the winter image.

So, @Adair M, this way. It has the proper branching and bark - the other side bites.

 

[Adair M]

There are some more options...

I spent some time with tweezers getting rid of the hanging needles and old, yellowing foliage. I haven’t finished with that task, and it still needs cutting back, but additional time with the tree allowed me to study it further.

I like the look of the tree in the last image above, with the apex moving away, except for the apex moving away. (The photos really don’t show how it ”feels”, unfortunately. Our binocular vision reveals the backward movement more so than the camera lens. Anyway... I‘m considering removing the bottom left branch of the first picture. That would open up the trunk more, and with other minor shifting and pruning, the view of the trunk could be made that pretty much is the same as the third image.

Another thing that’s deceptive about that third picture is the trunk scars were in the shadow when I took the picture this morning. I moved the tree out into the sun to work on it this afternoon, and those scars are pretty ugly in the sunlight.

I’ll take a picture...

 

[Adair M]

I mean, they’re not awful, but they’re not beautiful, either.

They are hard to take a picture of.

 

[Zach Smith]

Adair, you have an awesome tree here. For my money, and having never seen the tree before so first impressions (for me) are almost always right, the first photo above would be the front if it were my tree. If the apex is moving away in this shot, I can't tell but maybe in person it's easy to spot. Regardless, I'd go for the best front and work out the flaw over time. If the tree is apically dominant (I assume so), then it would seem like growing out an apex that comes toward the viewer wouldn't be all that hard.

For what it's worth, of course; I don't grow Atlas cedars.

 

[Adair M]

Adair, you have an awesome tree here. For my money, and having never seen the tree before so first impressions (for me) are almost always right, the first photo above would be the front if it were my tree. If the apex is moving away in this shot, I can't tell but maybe in person it's easy to spot. Regardless, I'd go for the best front and work out the flaw over time. If the tree is apically dominant (I assume so), then it would seem like growing out an apex that comes toward the viewer wouldn't be all that hard.

For what it's worth, of course; I don't grow Atlas cedars.

The “side” picture?

 

[JudyB]

I agree with the majority that #3 is your best option. I don't mind the apex issue that much, and you'll be able to work it over time. But I know how a small thing like that can eat away at you if you let it... I had the same issue with a flaw on that JWP that I could never get my head around. But please give me a heads up if you list it on ebay!

 

[Adair M]

Here’s the story behind this tree:

I bought this one from Jim Gremel in January 2019. I made the pilgrimage up to his place with my friends @markyscott and Morgan Alexander. Jim had this tree on his bench and it was for sale. He had originally grown it and sold it some years prior. It showed up on a bonsai club’s auction bench, and one of Jim’s friends recognised it, and called Jim to see if he wanted to buy it back. He did. As is often the case with club auctions, it sold at a low price. I dont know what condition it was in. Jim’s friend bought it for Jim, and returned it to his home. That’s where I saw it. And purchased it from Jim. It was very reasonably priced, as most of Jim’s Atlas Cedars are very expensive. My friends couldn’t believe I was able to get such a bargain on the tree.

I took it to Boon’s where it’s been until last week when I was able to ship a number of my trees home from there. I removed the old wire and retired it in June of 2019, but haven’t done much to it since then until today. Today, I had time to tweezer off the hanging and dead needles. (At least, most of them!). It’s still needs a good cut back.

 

[Adair M]

Er, no, I’m not planning on selling it on ebay, LOL!

 

[Zach Smith]

The “side” picture?

Yep, that would be the one. It just does a lot more for me than any other angle.

 

[Adair M]

Yep, that would be the one. It just does a lot more for me than any other angle.

I’ll have to go look more carefully! Thanks, Zach! I hope you’re doing well.