Need Help and Thoughts on Blue Atlas Cedar Planting in Grow Bags

[Jetson1950]

Hey everyone. I’ve never worked with Blue Atlas Cedars (BAC) before and have never used grow bags before, so I’m looking for some help deciding if what I want to do is acceptable.

I’ve got three BAC and I’m thinking 2-3 years in the ground to grow them a bit. Two are seedlings and one is a grafted. They are in 1 gallon pots right now. The tree in the picture with them is a Key Lime tree I’m going to dig up in September to start its bonsai journey. I want to use this space to plant all three of the BACs. It’s about 3’ x 2’ and there is a sprinkler head close by. East is left in the picture, so they will get morning sun with full sun about 11:00 till 2:00 then shade as the sun goes past the porch. Research tells me these should grow about 8-12” a year, so all three should fit there no problem. I also want to plant them in 3 gallon grow bags to keep their roots from getting entangled as they grow. The bags are Root Pouch brown bags.

I’m thinking at least two, maybe three, years in this spot. If I want to do any wiring, for trunk movement or branches, I can do it here in the ground. This spot is where they have been since I got them and they are growing well and don’t seem to be bothered by the amount of sunlight they are getting. They will get a little more sun with the lime tree missing. Winter here is always mild with maybe 10 days of temperatures between 28-32 degrees freezing.

Any thoughts or guidance is greatly appreciated. I do have larger grow bags if the 3 gallon ones don’t seem large enough.

 

[Wulfskaar]

I think they should be fine in their current 1g pots for at least a couple more years. @rockm warns of putting trees into pots that are too large. I'm not sure if these grow bags qualify as too large or not.

 

[Jetson1950]

I think they should be fine in their current 1g pots for at least a couple more years. @rockm warns of putting trees into pots that are too large. I'm not sure if these grow bags qualify as too large or not.

To me it seems like I’ll just be planting them in the ground. The grow bags are big enough that the cedars shouldn’t even know they are there. They should just think they are in the ground and not a pot. But, if their roots start spreading, these bags are suppose to cause the roots to branch instead of growing in circles. The ends of the roots get stuck in the cloth bag causing it to branch instead of turning. I’ll be using the sandy loan ground soil in the bags that I excavate out of the hole. I guess my thought process is they should grow better in the ground and thicken quicker. Fewer plants I have to worry about watering in a pot.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Yep. Might as well just put them in the ground. Skip the grow bags. Too big for now anyways.

Plan on at least three years in ground. May want to bend the lower trunk in ground or prior to planting depending upon the vision for the tree. If no, plant on a 30ish degree angle

While in the ground one might also want to take a shovel after two years, prune the roots and rotate the tree. This is also a time to pull the tree, put in temp pot, prestyle and return in ground

Consider varmints in local area as may need chicken wire around the trees,

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[smlat]

They may need deeper pots come spring, but for now, let them grow in those pots. Just give them everything they need for a couple years and they will fatten up. Looks fun! You're lucky to have them!

 

[Jetson1950]

They may need deeper pots come spring, but for now, let them grow in those pots. Just give them everything they need for a couple years and they will fatten up. Looks fun! You're lucky to have them!

Thanks! I’ve just about completed my acquisition of different trees I want to work with. Last conifer I want to get is a Japanese Black Pine. Still looking for a couple of those.

 

[Jetson1950]

Okay, back to increasing my knowledge base on these Blue Atlas Cedars. Pictures below are the two seedlings I acquired. They are going to stay in the one gallon pots they are in for the foreseeable future to let them just grow for a while. They are both starting to grow faster than I expected.

Here is my new question. The needles are really thick on them and the trunks are covered with needles. Would it be appropriate to remove the needles on the lower truck to help provide more energy toward growing branches? I’ve read the answer is yes, but I don’t want to cut anything off till I’ve heard it from folks who actually grow them. These are quite young and currently only 6” and 8” tall. I got them late June and they were both 5” tall, so they seem quite healthy.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

No, please do no remove needles. Let er rip without removing needles.

Later when the trees get calipered out, then one can pinch ir prune tips as needed to sift growth to previous buds

At some point, not now of course, you’ll want to develop a plan for future design and get some bends in along the way as bends are harmed to do (and stay in place when they are thick.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Jetson1950]

No, please do no remove needles. Let er rip without removing needles.

Later when the trees get calipered out, then one can pinch ir prune tips as needed to sift growth to previous buds

At some point, not now of course, you’ll want to develop a plan for future design and get some bends in along the way as bends are harmed to do (and stay in place when they are thick.

Cheers
DSD sends

Got it. The only plan thoughts right now are looking for a final height of around 18-20”with an informal upright style.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Great,

Might want to search for and read other BAC threads. There are a number of these that show works in progress, including:

Thread 'Blue Atlas Cedar rehab - Inherited tree'

Oct 21, 2023

This Blue Atlas Cedar bonsai is one of the many trees owned by my Father in law. It was a full cascade then..

A couple years before Dad passed this tree (amongst others) was given to his oldest son. My better half and I repotted it over five years ago. Since then hadn’t seen the tree. A couple weeks ago he asked us to take eight of the trees, including this BAC. It’s at least 30 yoa.

Hasn’t been repotted since and has had minimal maintenance…. As one can see seven years of little work and the tree sprung up to almost a semi cascade. Sorry about the not great photo.

...

• Deep Sea Diver
• bending blue atlas cedar rehabilitation repotting styling
• Replies: 67
• Forum: Other Conifers

• 

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Jetson1950]

Great,

Might want to search for and read other BAC threads. There are a number of these that show works in progress, including:

Thread 'Blue Atlas Cedar rehab - Inherited tree'

Oct 21, 2023

This Blue Atlas Cedar bonsai is one of the many trees owned by my Father in law. It was a full cascade then..

A couple years before Dad passed this tree (amongst others) was given to his oldest son. My better half and I repotted it over five years ago. Since then hadn’t seen the tree. A couple weeks ago he asked us to take eight of the trees, including this BAC. It’s at least 30 yoa.

Hasn’t been repotted since and has had minimal maintenance…. As one can see seven years of little work and the tree sprung up to almost a semi cascade. Sorry about the not great photo.

...

• Deep Sea Diver
• bending blue atlas cedar rehabilitation repotting styling
• Replies: 67
• Forum: Other Conifers

• 

Cheers
DSD sends

Perfect. Just what I needed. I’ve been gathering info on them and this will help. I’m liking these little guys a lot. Everything says slow growers, but one of them has doubled in size in the few months I’ve had it. It must like the weather here.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Dunno about slow growers, usually if happy these will extend growth quite readily and either need pinching back or pruning back to a latent bud in the fall for ramified BAC. Properly pruned, BAC will form pads readily over time.

The one take home message on BAC in our back yard is this species can easily crack larger branches when bent so bend when younger if possible. "Keep robust and healthy, raffia and place wire on properly. The flip side is these tree are like a number of other extending conifer species, like Mountain Hemlock etc in that their branches will spring back once wire is off of them unless appropriate guy wires are in place. "

cheers
DSD sends