Are you experienced?

[milehigh_7]

Just great... He's vanished like a puff of Smoke... (<--- what I did there ya see it??? )

 

[Bunjeh]

I have decided that I am beating my head against a wall in the way a forum should work. I have concluded that people here have no skin in the game. From now on if someone wishes my help it will be done at the rate of $400.00 per day. I guarentee you will learn things or your money back.

When you get all the info for free its easy to beat up on the oracle.

You know what? I'm just gonna stop. I feel like I am the one beating my head up against the wall here. And I don't believe I am the one going postal. But today you pissed me off so much I almost went out to the backyard turned my benches over.

I have noticed since start this pursuit that there are two types of bonsai enthusiasts; elitests and egalitarians. Smoke, you are obviously an elitest and perhaps rightly so. But you can't kick puppies and throw rocks at people and then expect pick up your toys and crawl back to the safety of your ivory tower.

Have fun with your little trees.

 

[milehigh_7]

You know what? I'm just gonna stop. I feel like I am the one beating my head up against the wall here. And I don't believe I am the one going postal. But today you pissed me off so much I almost went out to the backyard turned my benches over.

I have noticed since start this pursuit that there are two types of bonsai enthusiasts; elitests and egalitarians. Smoke, you are obviously an elitest and perhaps rightly so. But you can't kick puppies and throw rocks at people and then expect pick up your toys and crawl back to the safety of your ivory tower.

Have fun with your little trees.

Trust me on this, a little experience talking, take a deep breath and take a few days away. I am sure neither one meant anything personal. Misunderstandings happen and that's all this was. Peace bros!

 

[Adair M]

Whoa! Smoke's not going away... It's too much fun teasing you guys!

I happened to stop by the old bonsai shop yesterday. I noticed a huge trident in the bed of a pickup in the parking lot. Interesting, I thought to myself.

I went in to pick up a tree I had been contracted to wire, and there was one of my workshop students, and he had an old Japanese Maple that he had recently aquired.

The previous owner had obviously no clue. It had been allowed to get leggy. I advised the new owner it needed cutting back. He handed my some concave scissors. I pruned one or two brsnches, describing why I was cutting back to where on the branch. Then handed the cutters back. He asked me to continue to finish thd tree. I did, took about 5 minutes.

Then, I asked when it had last been repotted? They told me they had just finished potting it when I walked in. Oh no! It wasn't potted right!

This was a $2,000 tree. About 2 feet tall, with the melting nebari, evenly spread around the base. And, yet, there it was, potted high, on a little hill, up to top edge of the rim with akadama.

What do I do? Do I smile and say nothing? Or do I insult them, and tell them they did a terrible job of potting? (Which they were so proud of?)

It was too nice a tree... So I told the owner it needed to be repotted again. He didn't give me any push back, but the shop owner did. But, I convinced him it needed to be done.

And I proceeded to repot it. So that when viewed with your eye at rim level, all you saw was nebari, no soil. The new soil was level in the pot, no mound. There was 1/8 to 1/4 inch of inside rim showing.

I had to get under the trunk to do it. Removed some circling and crossing roots. But wow, what a difference.

I'm sorry I don't have any pictures.

Anyway, the owner now wants me to come spend a day at his house to do some other trees. Another person who was at the shop signed on for a workshop.

And the tree is much improved. After two or three years of ramification, it will be ready to go to Rochester.

So, after we were done, I apologised for hurting everyone's feelings about the earlier potting job. And thr consensus was, they didn't know 1) how much better it would look "done right", 2) how to "get the soil level", 3) how to not be afraid to "do what needs to be done".

 

[sorce]

I think the title of this post could have easily been changed to............

"Do you have COMMON SENSE?"

Or,

"Do you practice Bonsai or BS on forums?"

maybe even,

"Is Smoke your Daddy?"
Ok that ones a stretch, unless your mother was into sweat suits in the 80's.

Seriously though. You Google search till you find the before pic, process, and after (10years) pic. Follow that, not the guy who has a YouTube video of trees, from one spring.
If you can't get through the contradictory information, apply the common sense!

I am not finished.

 

[sorce]

I don't figure to post for example how I did an airlayer because it would most definitely bore everybody who has seen it a thousand times.

Joe.

I disagree, please post your A\L process.
Documentation via pictures with date stamps, in your area, with that tree, is EXACTLY the information we all need. Unless this is the 1000th time you layered that tree, that time that day that way....but that's impossible! Success or failure, the knowledge is immeasurable.

All,

The layer forum should be chock full of those documentations.
Not, when do I's and how long should I's...
All that should be Googled.
Should be...started this layer, pics of peeks of the week, chop time! Or recut time. Or my layer died cuz the Damn v.c.....etc.

That pretty much goes for everything.

I love to see a post with a tree hacked at the wrong time, they get told, listen, give better aftercare, then post it again in spring growing strong.
That's gangster! Those are the practitioners not the BSrs.

Let Smoke and Vance run people off, then I don't have to scroll through so much crap to see actual work!

Speaking of running people off....wasn't it Poink that ran off Sawgrass? Maybe they secretly eloped? Joke. Chill.
Dario met W.P. and with that, he is now an elitest. He doesn't need us!

Throwback Thursdays are a symbol of Humility and non-elite.

Sorce.

P.S. the time line...and my mom's line of work(nurse)and location(Fresno area), says there's a 10% chance it could've been her putting things up smokes, I believe it was woo-hoo?, so I may be able to tell you, for sure, if his S stinks or not!

 

[sorce]

I think what happens is that in the course of experimentation you have something that works really well... once. If you aren't careful, it becomes "law". What you SHOULD be doing as saying... hmmmm interesting - this worked ONCE let me see if I can get it to work again. Then let me see if I can get it to work again with a different tree. Then let me see if I can get it to work again in a slightly different situation. Etc... und so weiter...

That has much wisdom in it. It would be true if I felt I could grow five needle pines and larch. I can not, so I have concentrated on the few species that thrive in my area. Junipers elms and tridents. I have a few hornbeams and am buying pines like crazy. Even Kenji Miyata is giving up on pines here in the valley after moving here 6 years ago from New England. I been saying for years that pines do not thrive here and everyone said I was crazy. Now Kenji says so and everyone believes it. I don't get this whole Japan thing...

I do not understand the quoted post or the reply...?

Nut. After Law I thought you were going to say, not everything works all the time, but then it goes on to implement the law we were being wary of.?

Smoke,
The pines? You realized you could keep them? And since no one else is buying them, you get them all?

Thanks

Sorce

 

[JoeR]

Joe.

I disagree, please post your A\L process.
Documentation via pictures with date stamps, in your area, with that tree, is EXACTLY the information we all need. Unless this is the 1000th time you layered that tree, that time that day that way....but that's impossible! Success or failure, the knowledge is immeasurable.

I got advice from someone here at some point to always document what you're doing. Come spring, I'm taking pictures to attach with the info cards I wrote on all my trees. I am also documenting my holly and blueberry airlayers. All I do is peel a 1.5 in strip off, scratch the cambium off and use a pot & a plastic platform for radial roots (I think recently someone else posted a thing about doing it also).

I don't ask all my questions here. Some I'm finding out for myself are:
Can you chop a tree above an airlayer that you are removing now?
Can you have consecutive airlayers (no would be the answer XD)?
Do wild blueberries randomly Drop branches?

I do things without posting here, such as attached , carved, and sealed with linseed oil a piece of tanuki to a juniper. Why linseed oil? I don't want to make poison (lime sulfur) in my house (can't do it outside) and linseed oil is what I had and I think it looks natural. I need to finish carving it today, maybe I will post a picture.

 

[M. Frary]

I was wondering the same about Dario.
Thing is he's not in Germany so I expect him back. He only thought he was an elitist.
Buneh. Don't take it out on your trees if someone makes you mad.

 

[coh]

Bunjeh, you need to stay away from the forum if it makes you that mad! I've been in lots of arguments and disagreements here, including with Al, and I've never felt like smashing trees as a result.

Keep in mind that he has stated several times that he comes to this forum for entertainment. He stirs the pot and then sits back and laughs. One could come up with any number of psychological explanations for that behavior, but what's the point.

 

[Anthony]

Bunjeh,

fuss not yourself, all do down here is Lingnan [ Clip and Grow ] wiring is rare, save when Adair cracks the whip - ha ha ha.

Still awaiting Al's repsonse on BSG with regards to that particle size in the "Grow Stones " opic.

Hah, Bonsai nut has growing, at 68 to 66 deg.F we are still awaiting Spring on a Tropical island, nothing is growing as of yet, how rich is that !!!
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Nut. After Law I thought you were going to say, not everything works all the time, but then it goes on to implement the law we were being wary of.?
Sorce

No... if it's a law is DOES work all the time. However with trees we are working in an almost infinitely complex environment. A "law" that works with black pines in one situation, will not work with black pines in another situation. So people work on their pines in one environment, find something that works, and then tell someone who lives on the other side of the continent about it as a "law" and that other person tries to apply it to a black pine... that is a different cultivar, in a different state of development, in a different soil mix, in a different horticultural zone, etc. Suddenly the "law" doesn't work for them. It isn't the law that is bad - it is the understanding of it that is bad (if that makes sense). You have person A that does one thing (and it works) and person B that does something else (and it works) and they argue about which is better... when it could be apples and oranges because they are dealing with very different scenarios.

I missed a lot of this conversation because I spent four hours yesterday working on a single black pine. And I'm not done yet, LOL. I'm certainly no Ryan Neil.

 

[Adair M]

LOL, Anthony!

Bonsai is wiring, and wiring is Bonsai!

 

[Bunjeh]

All: OK,..I'm not fussin'. Smoke seems to be the kind of guy who would fart in an elevator and run. I am the kind of guy who chases after people like that and butter cups them.

OK,..so,..I took Nut and Ed's advice and made some quick changes noting that I had to be very careful not to rub off any of the new buds. I cleaned the chop and resealed it (would like to go more perpendicular but I did not want to destroy that little branch.) Finally, rewired the few branches to add some character as best I could with out disturbing new growth.

 

[0soyoung]

I cleaned the chop and resealed it (would like to go more perpendicular but I did not want to destroy that little branch.)

Since you have several trees that had been chopped, it is too bad that you didn't refrain from doing this on a few. Then you could compare the results (with vs without) and actually learn something.

 

[Smoke]

All: OK,..I'm not fussin'. Smoke seems to be the kind of guy who would fart in an elevator and run. I am the kind of guy who chases after people like that and butter cups them.

OK,..so,..I took Nut and Ed's advice and made some quick changes noting that I had to be very careful not to rub off any of the new buds. I cleaned the chop and resealed it (would like to go more perpendicular but I did not want to destroy that little branch.) Finally, rewired the few branches to add some character as best I could with out disturbing new growth.

No, I'm the kinda guy who would fart in an elevator and then ask the lady in there if she had beans for dinner?

I have no beef with your tree or what you do to your trees. You are just the guy who posted for help with chops and did no homework. Well did some homework and said the homework was contradicting. There is good info right here on this forum if you search for it. BVF, me and many others have good articles and pictures of chops and what to do and what not to do

What you have to do instead of being pissed off is ask some important questions about the way you are learning the art or reading about the art. I did not call you out by name, I never disparged your work. All I did was make a sound observation which you took issue with. Ask the questions about that and answer them honestly. You will find that you have not been slighted in the least.


Note to all newbies, first timers, guys that have been here a year and are masters now, guys that have been here five years and are tired of the fighting but come back to gleen the nuggets of wisdom out of the crap......Do this:

I have a tree I am working with I wish to take this


And I would like to turn it into this. I know this is a pipe dream but this is what I can afford or whats available in my area. What would the time frame be to achieve this and what could I do now to work towards that end?

William Valavanis photo

You will get many replies. Most of them will be negative telling you that you are crazy and that unless you are twenty years old you may never see it, (which is false by the way). What you will get is how to proceed with what you have. I looked at your photo of the work you did. My assesment is;

You have not chopped this plant. You have pruned this plant. Chopping a piece of stock is done for a specific purpose.
It is done to;
A. shorten material to a shorter tree for various reasons...or
B. to increase base size and continue on with successive chops to build directional changes and increased taper along the way.

What you will do, or I might think you will do, is make directional changes from your pruning point making the tree look goofy because the tree below has one bend with two stovepipes on each end, or taper will start at the pruning point and look goofy because both stove pipes below are the same size.

 

[Smoke]

Bunjeh,

fuss not yourself, all do down here is Lingnan [ Clip and Grow ] wiring is rare, save when Adair cracks the whip - ha ha ha.

Still awaiting Al's repsonse on BSG with regards to that particle size in the "Grow Stones " opic.

Hah, Bonsai nut has growing, at 68 to 66 deg.F we are still awaiting Spring on a Tropical island, nothing is growing as of yet, how rich is that !!!
Good Day
Anthony

not particle size..particle that retains water better than pumice or grow stones. Words mean things. get it right man....

 

[Smoke]

So what can be conveyed in a post that shows a piece of material and a tree that the poster wishes to posses? For me it give me an idea about what the poster wishes to do. What the plan is. How to formulate a response based on the desire of the poster rather than my preconcieved ideas of what "I" think should be done with it.

Its not my tree, its not my time...please respect me and the use of my time for your endeavors.

 

[Bunjeh]

Since you have several trees that had been chopped, it is too bad that you didn't refrain from doing this on a few. Then you could compare the results (with vs without) and actually learn something.

Good point. Do have one that is still whole, but the rest were run over by either Strykers or mowing crews so I had to go with what was available.

 

[Bunjeh]

Its not my tree, its not my time...please respect me and the use of my time for your endeavors.

Deal. Henceforth when I ask for advice I will do so with the caveat "Smoke: Do not reply"

Thus endeth the lesson.