Anyone used Pro’s Choice Select Sports Field Conditioner for soil mix

[Mellow Mullet]

View attachment 443598
This is a japanese black pine I started last year from seedling cutting. This picture was taken when i repotted earlier this year in march. This is one growing season worth of root growth and approximately one year from seed. The growing medium was 3:1 perlite to peat moss and both components were purchased from Lowes at a very affordable price.

Notice how ramified the roots are and notice the roots under the trunk/stem this is what will become the ‘shin’ or the heart of the root system.

I have never seen a root system like this in any pre-bonsai plant that i have purchased that was grown in turface. In fact, this one year old JBP had the same caliper and more rootage than a 4 year old JBP that i bought from a renowned pre-bonsai vendor that uses turface.

If you want to use Turface by all means go ahead, but the only appeal of it as a soil medium is because its cheap right? I strongly feel that there are components that are as cheap or cheaper that will yeild far better results.

So, the answer is still no, right?

Most people trim the "shin" off. Downward growing roots are trimmed off to keep the root mass thin, unless you are making a negari. The heart of a good root system is a strong radial nebari with nice feeder roots, not a jumble of roots under the trunk.

 

[Deleted member 32750]

So, the answer is still no, right?

Most people trim the "shin" off. Downward growing roots are trimmed off to keep the root mass thin, unless you are making a negari. The heart of a good root system is a strong radial nebari with nice feeder roots, not a jumble of roots under the trunk.

Again, I don’t need to bother growing my plants in turface because there is already so much information from world renowned professionals and even information on this form about it being a subpar medium.

feel free to share your results growing plants from seed in turface so OP can see comparable results and make his own evidence based decision?

Also i can tell you’re not a pine or juniper guy based on that comment. You would never “trim the shin off” on any tree that actually develops a shin.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

So, I guess it is a "no".

In my 20 or so year non professional ( I don't put much stock in today's bonsai professionals, now a days, if you a you tube channel, a cell phone, and a blog, you too, can be a "BONSAI professional") bonsai career, I have realized that you can grow trees in just about anything, as long as you get the watering right. I have grown them in 5mm glass beads, but that is another story.

As for examples, I have plenty of trees on here that have spent time in turface.

I do not grow pines, the kinda struggle here. Junipers do well here, and yes. I keep the area under the trunk clean. No shin for me, never heard it referred to like that.

Enjoy growing your trees in whatever you like, and I am sorry for crapping up the OP's thread.

And a no is a no, no matter how you polish it.

 

[Cajunrider]

I use 1/4" pumice and lava mixed with pine bark. 40/40/20 ratio.

Where do you get the pumice and lava? I have been trying to find a decent source in the Gulf Coast area.

 

[GGB]

I wouldn’t hesitate to use turface on smaller trees but I would definitely mix it with something else. I only have experience using it as part of a mixture and had no complaints. I don’t use it anymore because of the particle size/shape. I have heard from others that problems arise when it’s used pure but never tried myself

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Where do you get the pumice and lava? I have been trying to find a decent source in the Gulf Coast area.

There is no place that I have found on the Gulf Coast to get it. I order lava from Flowerrocklava.com and pumice from General Pumice by the pallet, (40-50# bags). I just got a shipment of two pallets each.

 

[waydeo]

Thanks mellow mullet I will have to order some .

 

[rhawes]

In the past I have used Hoffman bonsai soil. It has expanded shale in it. I think it kept my bonsai way too wet. I have since changed to mostly using boons mix or just Akadama, I also use a lot of organic too!!. Their is nothing like akadama. I am sold!!!

 

[James W.]

What's the best recomendations for soil mix ? What local amendments is everyone using ? I haven't found any akadama, pumice , or lava rock locally. I can order those but shipping is expensive. I can get chicken/ turkey grit at a feed store, not the best but it's cheap. I know it doesn't help with water holding but I can water twice a day. Alternatives ? I'm trying to find coarse sand . I think I have found some good pine bark fines at Lowe's for my azaleas. I would like to make a big batch for my future seedlings . Any Suggestions for soil mix I can make with local products?

If you have a NAPA auto parts store locally you might try #8822 diatomaceous earth as a bonsai mix component. It is discussed at length here.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I read the datasheet, the "Pro's Choice Select Sports Field Conditioner" is essentially the same type of product as Turface. Both are clay that has been fired to 1200 F in a rotary kiln. So comments about Turface should apply to Pro's Choice Select Sports Field Conditioner, as they are both montmorillinite, illite, and amorphous silica that has been fired.

I have used Turface off and on for many, many years. I have had trouble when I used Turface as a sole component potting media. But when used as a component of a mix, typically around 25% of the total mix, Turface is just fine. The biggest difficulty is matching particle size. Particle size is usually too fine for my purposes, at or under 1/8th inch. But an excellent blend was to pair it with the now no longer available locally to me "Dry Stall" which was a very similar sized pumice, and I would add sifted fine douglas fir bark from my seedling orchid mix. This mix, pumice, turface, and fir bark was all sifted to remove fines below 1/16th inch. It was a fine but very porous mix. It worked well. I could substitute fine particle akadama or kanuma for the fir bark, for a longer lived mix. With the bark the mix usually required repotting every 3 or so years. A more long lived mix could be had by omitting the bark and adding akadama or kanuma.

Nothing wrong with fired clay products, as long as they are fired to temperatures high enough that they remain stable when wet.

 

[waydeo]

I saw this gravel at the fish store today .I think it's called dolomite . Pros/cons ?looks to be 1/8" to 1/4 size.

 

[waydeo]

Ok, coraline marine gravel is crushed coral mined in florida . Here's a picture of the size gravel.

 

[rockm]

Ok, coraline marine gravel is crushed coral mined in florida . Here's a picture of the size gravel.

Wouldn't use that with plants, particularly acid-loving plants, such as azalea, or even much else. Desert species might tolerate it. I have had saltwater fish tanks. Substrates used in them are a buffer for the water's pH--tending to keep it on the alkaline side. The ideal pH for saltwater tanks is about 8.2. That level of alkalinity in bonsai soil can be a problem. It's apparently mined crushed coral, which is basically a carbonate.

 

[waydeo]

Thanks rockm. The more I read I realized it was too alkaline for bonsai.

 

[Srt8madness]

View attachment 443598
This is a japanese black pine I started last year from seedling cutting. This picture was taken when i repotted earlier this year in march. This is one growing season worth of root growth and approximately one year from seed. The growing medium was 3:1 perlite to peat moss and both components were purchased from Lowes at a very affordable price.

Notice how ramified the roots are and notice the roots under the trunk/stem this is what will become the ‘shin’ or the heart of the root system.

I have never seen a root system like this in any pre-bonsai plant that i have purchased that was grown in turface. In fact, this one year old JBP had the same caliper and more rootage than a 4 year old JBP that i bought from a renowned pre-bonsai vendor that uses turface.

If you want to use Turface by all means go ahead, but the only appeal of it as a soil medium is because its cheap right? I strongly feel that there are components that are as cheap or cheaper that will yeild far better results.

Looks awesome. Peat moss like the dirt or sphagnum?

 

[Deleted member 32750]

Looks awesome. Peat moss like the dirt or sphagnum?

Just plain peat moss dirt!

 

[waydeo]

I had two friends give me some napa 8822 oil dry and some granite chicken grit that I'll try and see how it works. I'm liking the perlite and peat moss , cheap and easy.
How do you guys deal with the perlite floating up during watering ? I thought about using the chicken grit or napa 8822 as a topping cause it's heavier.

 

[Deleted member 32750]

I had two friends give me some napa 8822 oil dry and some granite chicken grit that I'll try and see how it works. I'm liking the perlite and peat moss , cheap and easy.
How do you guys deal with the perlite floating up during watering ? I thought about using the chicken grit or napa 8822 as a topping cause it's heavier.

I only use perlite for young plants and seed starting, you can chopstick and tamp down the perlite mix just like you would any other soil mix. alway leave some space from the rim of the pot to the top of the soil. After a while the soil mix will settle in place. Just don't blast the soil surface with your hose.

 

[Cajunrider]

I use perlite but has issues with it when I need to dunk the tree for thorough watering in the sweltering heat we have. When you dunk the tree, the perlite comes out of the soil.

 

[Maiden69]

There is no place that I have found on the Gulf Coast to get it. I order lava from Flowerrocklava.com and pumice from General Pumice by the pallet, (40-50# bags). I just got a shipment of two pallets each.

What do you think about the General Pumice product? When they started selling in Amazon they got a lot of mixed reviews... lot of "granite", "quartz", and other stones mixed into it. I am ordering from Jonas, it is $2 more for the 3 gal size. I added a link to his wholesale/retail program where you need to buy 50 bags or more.

Bonsai Soil - Wholesale Orders - Bonsai Tonight

(updated 10/10/24)

bonsaitonight.com

If you want "turface" or the "Pro Choice" in usable size get it from Bonsai Jack, his Monto Clay us the same thing, but it is sized to 1/4" and the particle shape is rounder and not flat like regular turface. See pic below, that is Bonsai Jack Monto Clay.