Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Haters gonna hate but the native foliage on this centuries old juniper is a distant memory... shimpaku for the win!!
Another collected Rocky Mountain Juniper
- Thread starter Dav4
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Crazy Diamond
Omono
How in the world could someone be hater of that tree? its freaking awesome, japanese graft Junipers all the time; its a no brainer with the improve in foliage quality and getting rid of the rust
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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I couldn't agree more with you, but there's a small but very vocal group of hobbyists who fundamentally refuse to consider the potential benefits of changing the foliage and would consider what I've done here to be horribly disrespectful to the tree. Of course, most of those hobbyists have mediocre to poor quality trees...
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ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
I couldn't agree more with you, but there's a small but very vocal group of hobbyists who fundamentally refuse to consider the potential benefits of changing the foliage and would consider what I've done here to be horribly disrespectful to the tree. Of course, most of those hobbyists have mediocre to poor quality trees...
Guess that makes me a hater.
It seems like every RMJ I see on here gets grafted with shimpaku. I understand the reasoning, and agree it's a viable strategy. You have made a good looking tree.
I'd just like to see at least ONE all natural RMJ brought to a decent level. I know it's tough working out exactly what conditions lead to the tighter foliage, and maintaining those conditions for years, but it seems like someone must have figured it out.
Hartinez
Masterpiece
Wow Dave!! You’ve done an exceptional job here! Love the relationship of deadwood to foliage. A great visual conversation for sure.
Hartinez
Masterpiece
No need to hate. Such a small number of decent Rocky’s on here to start and not all of them are grafted. So even if 50 percent were grafted, that’s like 4 trees. Also, rocky foliage is tough and disease prone. Dave has another with rust and will always have rust if it’s not switched out. Which means any other Rocky he has is prone to rust. There also lots of pros and hobbyists not on this site who have Rocky’s ungrafted that are phenomenal trees. Lastly, once you own a shimpaku with some shape and character you will understand real quick the appeal and desire to switch out the foliage.
Hartinez
Masterpiece
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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I think you literally just explained why many RMJs get grafted. I fought that fight with this tree and several other RMJs for a decade plus, and you can see this tree styled with its native foliage at the beginning of this thread. Genetically, the foliage was never going to tighten up and would always be a sallow green, so it was an easy decision to swap it for something better. The tree in this thread- https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/yamadori-rocky-mountain-juniper.1211/ - was a more difficult decision. The foliage had a much nicer faint blue hue and it did hold its scale foliage for a few years down in GA... and then it went to semi juvenile foliage and really never went back no matter what I did. The last time I showed it, I discussed it at length with the judge, Tyler Sherrod. At that point, I'd been working the tree for 14-15 years, and when I argued with him that the foliage was good... even though it was thin, floppy, etc., Tyler looked at me and basically said " and this is what you have after 15 years of work??" Life is too short!!! There's now a chance this newly grafted tree will turn into something special while on my bench.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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I know this tree and I've seen it in person several times.... this is as good as it gets with RMJs. It'll never get tighter and you have to wire much more than with shimpaku to keep the pad shape. I love this tree and feel like the native foliage here is acceptable... but I bet it would look better with shimpaku.
Hartinez
Masterpiece
Def one of my favorite trees out there. 100% agree on the foliage of Rocky in general. I’ve got a nursery RMJ that looks best right after wiring. But Is not terribly great looking months later. I do like though that the above tree is still RMJ. All efforts to maintain shape aside, it’s got provenance as RMJ true foliage and I think would lose its luster without it.
in general though, you can’t beat shimp foliage.
ShadyStump
Imperial Masterpiece
All good points.
I suppose it may just be my love for the native trees in my area.
On the subject of being prone to rust, I imagine that's a matter of climate. I hardly see it on trees here, but take an RMJ to Alabama and the humidity would really kick up your risk level. Then how many hardcore bonsai practitioners able to do something with it are in the of RMJ's native range, and then there are only a couple I might ever see. That all would explain why it's hard to find a good all natural one.
Now I'm still disappointed in that fact, but I understand why it is. If I lived closer to Denver (God forbid) I'd probably have much better chances.
I suppose it may just be my love for the native trees in my area.
On the subject of being prone to rust, I imagine that's a matter of climate. I hardly see it on trees here, but take an RMJ to Alabama and the humidity would really kick up your risk level. Then how many hardcore bonsai practitioners able to do something with it are in the of RMJ's native range, and then there are only a couple I might ever see. That all would explain why it's hard to find a good all natural one.
Now I'm still disappointed in that fact, but I understand why it is. If I lived closer to Denver (God forbid) I'd probably have much better chances.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Climate, along with individual genetics, is the single limiting factor here. Down in Georgia, Rocky Mountain junipers grew much more lanky and rank, and it seemed, were much more likely to have juvenile growth than adult scale, most likely due to hot humid and long growing seasons. Add to that the cedar apple rust that you could never get away from and it became a challenge to keep these healthy and looking good. I do believe that Rocky Mount Junipers kept in colder climates and at some elevation are much more likely to grow more appropriately for bonsai.
Tidal Bonsai
Omono
It needs to be taken on a case by case basis. I have seen tons of variation with RMJ at Nature's Way, in personal collections, and even in my own yard. I am currently in the process of grafting a shohin RMJ with Ito because in the 3 years I have had it, it has never produced mature foliage. I don't feel bad about it at all, it will only improve the tree overtime which is the whole goal of bonsai!
Kyleboldy2003
Shohin
I think It is to each their own. I do not graft but that is my personal choice that tree looks very nice and looks like it is coming a long nice. But also for myself in my personal collection I been trying to stick with native trees to the United States. I have tons of trees that are shimpakus and Japanese black pines but that is for development and selling hopefully. But keep doing what you do tree looks very niceI couldn't agree more with you, but there's a small but very vocal group of hobbyists who fundamentally refuse to consider the potential benefits of changing the foliage and would consider what I've done here to be horribly disrespectful to the tree. Of course, most of those hobbyists have mediocre to poor quality trees...
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Or none at all, they just make noise. The problem with this is the fact that most people who object to the conversion to Shimpaku foliage have never had to deal with the real thing in a serious manner.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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So, it's been almost 3 years since I've updated this thread, and this one isn't dead yet so I'm thinking about getting it into a show late this summer before it goes toes up... 
.
In all seriousness, this time last year, I actually thought I was losing it. It had started dropping small branches throughout the canopy, and I couldn't figure out why. For a while, I though the RMJ was beginning to reject the shimpaku grafts. In the end, I suspect mites may have played a roll but checked about 30 times and never found them (still treated, too). I did a pretty aggressive thinning out of foliage late July last year and, for some reason, that seemed to stop its decline.
Anyway, Along with a little wire and cleaning up the pads, the deadwood needed some TLC. We had about 3 inches of rain today, so, dodging t-storms this afternoon, I scrubbed the weathered wood with a brush soaked in water with some dish soap. Then, I applied diluted lime sulfur... A LOT of diluted lime sulfur! The tree's under the eaves to dry now. In a perfect world (I have no idea where that is, fwiw
), the tree would have been re-potted higher this past spring to show more of the deadwood...
.In all seriousness, this time last year, I actually thought I was losing it. It had started dropping small branches throughout the canopy, and I couldn't figure out why. For a while, I though the RMJ was beginning to reject the shimpaku grafts. In the end, I suspect mites may have played a roll but checked about 30 times and never found them (still treated, too). I did a pretty aggressive thinning out of foliage late July last year and, for some reason, that seemed to stop its decline.
Anyway, Along with a little wire and cleaning up the pads, the deadwood needed some TLC. We had about 3 inches of rain today, so, dodging t-storms this afternoon, I scrubbed the weathered wood with a brush soaked in water with some dish soap. Then, I applied diluted lime sulfur... A LOT of diluted lime sulfur! The tree's under the eaves to dry now. In a perfect world (I have no idea where that is, fwiw
), the tree would have been re-potted higher this past spring to show more of the deadwood...
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Michigan Tree Murderer
Masterpiece
Wow! That looks incredible. What show are you thinking of? And yeah that's a lot of LS. Appears you have it on tap.So, it's been almost 3 years since I've updated this thread, and this one isn't dead yet so I'm thinking about getting it into a show late this summer before it goes toes up...
In all seriousness, this time last year, I actually thought I was losing it. It had started dropping small branches throughout the canopy, and I couldn't figure out why. For a while, I though the RMJ was beginning to reject the shimpaku grafts. In the end, I suspect mites may have played a roll but checked about 30 times and never found them (still treated, too). I did a pretty aggressive thinning out of foliage late July last year and, for some reason, that seemed to stop its decline.
Anyway, Along with a little wire and cleaning up the pads, the deadwood needed some TLC. We had about 3 inches of rain today, so, dodging t-storms this afternoon, I scrubbed the weathered wood with a brush soaked in water with some dish soap. Then, I applied diluted lime sulfur... A LOT of diluted lime sulfur! The tree's under the eaves to dry now. In a perfect world (I have no idea where that is, fwiw
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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I’m hoping to show a few trees at the Ann Arbor show in August.Wow! That looks incredible. What show are you thinking of? And yeah that's a lot of LS. Appears you have it on tap.
Michigan Tree Murderer
Masterpiece
wink wink nudge nudge. know what I mean? Say no more.
