American Bonsai Society Announcement

[rockm]

As a newcomer, it’s very sad to see this sort of thing even in a hobby that’s supposed to be peaceful. I looked into the hobby to get away from antics like this.

I also feared joining any forum because I knew they would inevitably pop up.

This isn't the forum. It is a tempest in a teapot in the American Bonsai Society.

We do get into some back and forth here, but it's never at the same level as what's going on at ABS and that local Florida club.

And FWIW, ANY organization that has people for members ALWAYS has some kind of drama. Ignoring it and not fueling it keeps it to a low mumble most times.

You will also find that doing bonsai is FAR from peaceful. It involves sometimes violent techniques (chopping trunk, severing limbs and cutting off vital parts of living things' bodies.)

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

As a newcomer, it’s very sad to see this sort of thing even in a hobby that’s supposed to be peaceful. I looked into the hobby to get away from antics like this.

I also feared joining any forum because I knew they would inevitably pop up.

Stuff like this shouldn't keep you out of a forum or website. The knowledge that these guys have and the quality of advice you get is well worth the time to post and ask questions.

 

[Waltron]

Holy shit haven’t been on here in a minute dafuq is this madness. Money or pride or what? I’m not sure, only made it to page 2. i Always kinda liked Adam. But one time I made a joke that one of his carve jobs looked like a big vagina, because it did, to me at least, and he didn’t think it was funny and I’m like oh damn he’s kinda soft. So idk, certainly doesn’t seem believable, but then there’s that one interaction where I’m like well I guess I could see it. Wild development, hope it all pans out ok for everyone. Sabatoage and betrayal.. in bonsai. Not uncommon in nature, like a vine choking a tree, or like a lion eatin a cheetah. Or somethin.

 

[milehigh_7]

Cheech and Chong

Labrador?

 

[milehigh_7]

As a newcomer, it’s very sad to see this sort of thing even in a hobby that’s supposed to be peaceful. I looked into the hobby to get away from antics like this.

I also feared joining any forum because I knew they would inevitably pop up.

Here's the thing. The bonsai community is like a family. At the end of the day, we are all united by our love for trees, art, nature, and likely many more things. From time to time we forget the ties that bind and get caught up in petty squabbles. It happens but usually, it is not permanent and like family, I have seen bonsai folks pull together and do amazing things for each other.

I have been around this lot for about 20 years and I have been the cause of my share of problems, still, the majority of this bunch has hung with me through some unbelievably difficult times. Most on here do not even know the depths life has taken my family and me to over the past 10 years or so. Still, they have put up with my occasional temper tantrums and depression.

Even if these were not some of the most wonderful and talented people anywhere, they are just good friends that will stick by you.

Every group has flaws. Even if you are a loner you have your own flaws to deal with so you may as well work through them with folks that will call you out and forgive you when your head is out of your backside.

You don't have to engage in the petty crap but stick around for the trees. Trust me you will learn to love these folk of you give them a chance. I do.

 

[rockm]

Here's the thing. The bonsai community is like a family. At the end of the day, we are all united by our love for trees, art, nature, and likely many more things. From time to time we forget the ties that bind and get caught up in petty squabbles. It happens but usually, it is not permanent and like family, I have seen bonsai folks pull together and do amazing things for each other.

I have been around this lot for about 20 years and I have been the cause of my share of problems, still, the majority of this bunch has hung with me through some unbelievably difficult times. Most on here do not even know the depths life has taken my family and me to over the past 10 years or so. Still, they have put up with my occasional temper tantrums and depression.

Even if these were not some of the most wonderful and talented people anywhere, they are just good friends that will stick by you.

Every group has flaws. Even if you are a loner you have your own flaws to deal with so you may as well work through them with folks that will call you out and forgive you when your head is out of your backside.

You don't have to engage in the petty crap but stick around for the trees. Trust me you will learn to love these folk of you give them a chance. I do.

The bonsai BUSINESS is different than the bonsai community as a whole...Both men rely on the bonsai community for their living or at least a part of it. This episode is probably better viewed from that perspective--business to business...That world is a lot more rough and tumble than the bonsai community. Throw in a volatile personality or three, and you get stuff like this.

I've seen some shade thrown around at shows by some folks who don't like competition, or having someone unfamiliar try to break into the relatively small market of bonsai. I've also seen the opposite with people bending over backward to help others. It's just like the real world, only fueled by bonsai.

 

[SU2]

I dislike having to bump this thread but am hoping for others' thoughts as I feel like I'm taking crazy-pills or something- does everyone truly think an uncorroborated, 3rd-party allegation should result in *permanent banning* of AdamAskWhy, or anyone for that matter? Because that's what's happened on Reddit....it was over a month ago that, in needing some bougie-specific help, help I always sought from Adam, I found that his supposedly "temporary" ban (from *over three months ago*) was still active! Upon realizing this I PM'd a moderator who essentially told me they didn't believe the charges and weren't for the ban, and were going to talk to the other mods (there's 4 total) to resolve it....time passed so I messaged a second moderator and got a reply that they weren't convinced about the charges and implied he'd be reinstated - I'd figured it was an oversight, ie a temp-ban accidentally left in-place, but now it's been a month since I reached-out to the mods and, upon just posting a thread there and tagging Adam in it, found his ban still stands.

Has anyone heard any new evidence? I know that the BSF sent over 600 emails to members asking for *anything* to corroborate anything related to the charges and they got *nothing* corroborating the supposed behavior....from where I'm sitting, I see a bonsai artist (Juan) who left the country and then a 3rd party levels vague (but ugly) charges, then that's amplified by 'Treehause's' open-letter that inexplicably differed from the ABS open-letter (I can't link it because it was deleted by the mods), and sooo many people were happy to just jump on and take the charges at face-value (the self-righteousness of some of the posts was just insane, "being PC" is like a sport for some people...) Juan left the country and he never made any public accusations/statements that it was over others' behavior, I saw his facebook post and it didn't even declare he was leaving let alone due to this supposed harassment, is it really so crazy to think he left for personal/life reasons and that he or others, either with his blessings or at least w/o his interference, simply used the situation to launch this? I'm ignorant about the professional bonsai scene but in reading about this situation I've realized it's not smart to discount dishonest tactics / manipulation where $ is concerned, I just re-read this thread and the post right above this one (@rockm's) is the perspective I cannot help but see this through now because I know two things for sure- there's ugly-but-uncorroborated charges that were levelled, and I know that Adam has been the friendliest & most-helpful person to me in the bonsai-community since I started out ~2yrs ago, I've met him in-person at my local club more than once and he is your standard 'good guy', the type that if they told an off-color joke it'd just be weird, not in-keeping with their general attitude.

Shortly after having found his temp-ban was still in effect (months after the ABS accusation), I noticed something I couldn't help but find, well, intriguing- on Reddit's bonsai 'side-bar', there's an "Artists & blogs" listing for the users to learn&see more and not only was Adam's blog removed, but Juan was placed at the very top of the list....I'd barely heard his name before the ABS letter, is he deserving of being at the top #1 spot on such a list? Graham Potter doesn't even make the cut! I wanted to see what Andrade had to offer the online-community but am just finding some youtubes, whereas Adam has over 7yrs of posts on his blog - honestly this just infuriates me, I know the value of Adam's blog because it's where I got my basic bonsai education, it sucks knowing that any newbies to reddit's bonsai board will not see his link there and be able to click to the wealth of information there, all because, what, someone says that someone else says that Juan was "pushed out" of FL? ABS, Mirai and Treehause were very quick to take the charge at face-value, which immediately gave it validity in the eyes of many who didn't seem too interested in getting answers to some basic things like how the hell you could be "run out" of a country because someone slandered you? Sorry but that just doesn't add-up...people are responding as-if he were physically assaulted/intimidated or something, there's something fascinating about how everyone just leaped at the opportunity to 'defend' Juan despite a lack of things adding-up in the charges.

I'm sorry to rant about this but since starting out Adam has just been the luckiest find for me, a guy with great experience who was/is always there to help newbies like myself understand things, and now he's banned from Reddit under shady circumstances, I mean there's 4 mods there and I'm not going to name names as they were private correspondences but the 2 I'd PM'd with both wanted him on the board and both doubted the veracity of the charges, yet here we are a month later and he's still banned + Juan was put to the top of the Artist's&Blogs list - I just cannot understand how the other two mods (one who doesn't even participate in the bonsai section of Reddit, his last post to the subreddit was when this drama went down!) are able to do this, I can only presume that they "hold the keys" as someone is ultimately in control of that sub-reddit and the two mods I'd spoken with via PM were clearly not on-board with Adam's treatment there.

---------

I share @billbayou's sentiment that the initial temp-ban was unwarranted - not only is it unfair not to let the accused speak in their defense (Treehause, a mod, leaves a damning open-letter until other mods took it down, yet Adam was already gagged on Reddit at that point, and still is) Further, the entirety of this accusation is of an off-line nature, the idea of an off-line accusation getting you banned online is just insane IMO (seriously, I mean if that's OK then wouldn't it be open-season for people just making unfalsifiable accusations against their competitors? If someone wants to say "My girlfriend told me [insert competitor here] groped her at that show, what a scumbag", that's enough that that person just gets banned? C'mon...)

And I also share his, and @Cadillactaste's, sentiments that this should end up in court as the court of public opinion has utterly failed and some serious reputational harms were done to Adam (and supposedly to Juan - though I haven't actually seen 1 acknowledgement from Juan himself that he's behind these charges, nor have I seen 1 specific charge- very, very fishy, that...)

I share @Anthony's sentiment that Juan's abilities would speak for themselves and that some talk being a reason to leave a country just doesn't make sense

I share @michaelj's contempt for this "Seth" character that asserted Adam called someone a nazi when, in fact, it was absolutely nothing of the sort (see Bill's screenshots for a sad-but-hilarious attempt by Seth to defend his claim that someone "was called a nazi")

I share @Dav4's concern/fear that this is a stunt being played at the expense of artists - I was initially condemning Juan for not speaking out to either corroborate / refute the ABS statements, *but* in reading about/pondering these types of shenanigans, I put myself in the shoes of a costa rican artist who wanted to break-into the US scene and found unwanted "help" from someone(s) at ABS (or wherever the first origination of the charges took place) and, well, I almost wonder if, were I wanting to refute the statement as false, how worried I'd be about the backlash from the biggest american bonsai org....I think many people, were they in a position where they found this occurring, would simply go along with it (it would benefit them, even if they hated the means the ends may've justified siding with liars)

I share the sentiment's echoed in @Vance Wood's & @rockm 's post that bonsai-business /= bonsai-artistry, and fully acknowledge the concept of people using underhanded tactics to help themselves/hurt their perceived competitors - if being as un-biased as possible it's simple to say that *either side* could be running a campaign against the other (figuring out who's being legitimate, however, becomes pretty simple upon examination here though IMO..) Further, I share Vance's frustration in the idea of people bringing accusations to light w/o bringing the whole story, what ABS did was unprofessional, if Juan was harassed out of a country (just sounds ridiculous even writing that...) then there should be an easy case for damages and ABS should've really helped Juan and gotten him legal help - instead there's vague charges that are all-but-impossible to refute (how does one prove the absence of an action? That's why it's on the accuser(s) to provide evidence, evidence that to this day hasn't been provided)

I share @Mikecheck123 's sentiment that, if being slandered, one doesn't pack up their family and move out of country - in googling Juan (was unfamiliar with him before this whole drama), I found an article where he boasts of his perseverence for 15yrs to get to become an apprentice in Japan, I'm sorry but that's simply not in-keeping with someone who, after coming to the US, finding hospitality with people like the Mirai group, would pack-up and leave the country over slander...which brings me to @Adair's posting

Juan is a Citizen of Costa Rica. He was in the US on a temporary visa. He has been trying to attain permanent residency in the US.

I'm sorry but this could easily be a reason he had to leave (expiring visa), I'd missed in the original drama that Juan only had a temp-visa....add that to a long list of potential reasons one could have for needing to abandon their idea of making bonsai a profitable career which is what it seems/seemed Juan wanted to do - there are many reasons that can fail but, for someone who's as dedicated as Juan describes himself, some slander doesn't seem a believable excuse for packing-up and leaving (hell, the charges change from Adam to Adam+others but it's always framed in a FL context, why on earth couldn't Juan have just continued to do bonsai-business elsewhere in the US? The more I read on this the less believable it becomes to think that Juan was **able** to maintain a profitable bonsai career in the US but had to forgo it because of some slander...

@bonsainut What do you think about locking this thread or deleting it altogether. I for one don't see any use for it.

This is the first post of yours I've disagreed with (am saying this with genuine respect, am very thankful to you for all the great help you've given me since I signed up here, you're amongst the best posters on this board IMO), I'm thinking you just meant it as "let's stop the rampant speculation" and not "let's sweep this out of the internet-bonsai-community 'zeitgeist'", am all for it being done-away with once it's resolved but until then we know *someone* is lying about serious stuff and IMO we do a great disservice to just ignore it if the people matter to us (and IMO if you're into bonsai then both artists should matter, the 'society' and other groups should matter - it would realllly suck to find out that a large contingent of the "official" bonsai scene wasn't about objective talents but just laden with nepotism/favoritism w/o regard for the merit of one's artistry!) I agree with you that there wasn't a use for it when you posted that, as the thread had died-down at that point and had just become echoes of "no proof" and was becoming redundant, but glad it's still up so I was able to jump-start it here - **are people really OK with knowing Adam is banned from one of the major boards, a multi-topic board that helps bring people into our art-form/hobby?**

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cheap_walmart_art[/B]] I have seen posts made by Seth, Adam, ABS, and others, but has Juan himself made any comment or statement involving this situation?

So far as I have seen he's said nothing, I find the silence deafening - if I were being harassed-away from my life's dream, you'd better believe I'd be calling-out those responsible (unless, maybe, I had physical safety fears - surely nobody thinks that's a factor in Juan's silence though)

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I do apologize for the rant but after finding Adam was still banned, and then (upon PM'ing the mods to find out why) finding that half the mod team seemed gung-ho for him to be able to post + didn't buy the accusations, but then seeing a month go by and he's still banned, it truly just reeks of 'behind the scenes favoritism' to me, especially when they(them?) went and removed Adam from the Artist's list and put Juan at the #1 spot, it was seeing that that really made me think there were ulterior motives here but promotion of Juan aside the reality is this was a vague accusaiton, from a 3rd party, about off-line behavior, and someone is being barred from speaking somewhere they have for ages. Reddit is private, I cannot appeal to the freedom of speech (though appeals to its principle should be apparent in my stance here) because that message-board is private, but it's not private like BonsaiNut is private IE the mod(s) who are fighting against Adam's ability to talk-trees there *do not* have financial interest in the site, I can only imagine they've got veto power though because half the mod-team there was with me via PM yet nothing happened, and of the other half that I didn't speak to only 1 actually posts there the other I cannot even tell if they're into bonsai... Anyways I figured most wouldn't be aware that Adam's been banned this entire time so I wanted to share it, I didn't find out til recently enough and he's my go-to for any non-generic Q's I have with bougainvilleas, his banning pisses me off for so many reasons and I know that I'd want to be made aware of it if I hadn't known :/

Thanks for reading, am curious to hear what people think and eager to see both Adam and Juan continue to increase their skills and prominence, and to see the truth of this whole matter come to light & those lying be punished for it, this type of nonsense should have no bearing on our online 'tree talk' nor on the merits of one's trees/skills!!

 

[Anthony]

@SU2 ,

simple private e-mails, telephone and visits in person.
So what if there is a ban, if the chap was helpful.
Just keep in touch with him.
Ignore the rest.
Wishing you well.
Anthony

 

[SU2]

@SU2 ,

simple private e-mails, telephone and visits in person.
So what if there is a ban, if the chap was helpful.
Just keep in touch with him.
Ignore the rest.
Wishing you well.
Anthony

"So what if there is a ban"? If you aren't sure what you believe about "what really did/did not happen", how can you be indifferent towards this? I actually did get help from him privately, he answered my most recent thread there, privately to me via PM, but that's just nonsense, that should be public and available for everyone to see....honestly I see this just as much an issue of a couple artists' situations as it is an issue of the bonsai community at-large, I guess I could be biased here but having found Adam's blog was the literal reason for me getting into bonsai, and when I think of my future in bonsai (no I don't want a public future I just mean I intend to keep bonsai til I die), I know I want a healthy, growing bonsai-community - re-making the wheel is a PITA, we all learn immense amounts from each other and people like Adam or Graham Potter are some of the biggest assets to newbies IMO (and every pro today was a newbie at one point...what's good for me is what's good for the community, so his ban or future bans of others over mere accusations truly bothers me and isn't something I can just ignore / pretend doesn't matter)

 

[amcoffeegirl]

Share his blog online yourself. Link to it whenever possible. Can't keep a good man down

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

I'm on the r/bonsai subreddit quite a bit, and after the first week or two after that open letter was posted, there wasn't much said on the subject anymore. From what I gathered though, the mods there are very close with one another on a personal level and I think some friendships may have ended or ended up on the rocks because of it. Pure speculation on my part, but as the bonsai subreddit is a bit more close knit than most subreddits, I think the mods are not ready to revisit that can of worms and likely just left it all as is to avoid further hard feelings. May not be the right thing, but it makes sense that they may not want to touch that issue again with a 10 foot pole. I hold a lot of respect for the mods on r/bonsai and they have helped me out on many occasions on my bonsai journey - I think that if you feel strongly about the ban, you are well within your rights to try to pursue a conversation about it in the subreddit, it may be that others feel the way that you do and would support lifting the ban. I never read much of Adams blog because his environment is so much different from mine, but I've been checking out his stuff as of recent as I've upped my ficus collection, and that dude's tropical bonsai game is on point and his knowledge is worth sharing.

 

[Adair M]

I dislike having to bump this thread but am hoping for others' thoughts as I feel like I'm taking crazy-pills or something- does everyone truly think an uncorroborated, 3rd-party allegation should result in *permanent banning* of AdamAskWhy, or anyone for that matter? Because that's what's happened on Reddit....it was over a month ago that, in needing some bougie-specific help, help I always sought from Adam, I found that his supposedly "temporary" ban (from *over three months ago*) was still active! Upon realizing this I PM'd a moderator who essentially told me they didn't believe the charges and weren't for the ban, and were going to talk to the other mods (there's 4 total) to resolve it....time passed so I messaged a second moderator and got a reply that they weren't convinced about the charges and implied he'd be reinstated - I'd figured it was an oversight, ie a temp-ban accidentally left in-place, but now it's been a month since I reached-out to the mods and, upon just posting a thread there and tagging Adam in it, found his ban still stands.

Has anyone heard any new evidence? I know that the BSF sent over 600 emails to members asking for *anything* to corroborate anything related to the charges and they got *nothing* corroborating the supposed behavior....from where I'm sitting, I see a bonsai artist (Juan) who left the country and then a 3rd party levels vague (but ugly) charges, then that's amplified by 'Treehause's' open-letter that inexplicably differed from the ABS open-letter (I can't link it because it was deleted by the mods), and sooo many people were happy to just jump on and take the charges at face-value (the self-righteousness of some of the posts was just insane, "being PC" is like a sport for some people...) Juan left the country and he never made any public accusations/statements that it was over others' behavior, I saw his facebook post and it didn't even declare he was leaving let alone due to this supposed harassment, is it really so crazy to think he left for personal/life reasons and that he or others, either with his blessings or at least w/o his interference, simply used the situation to launch this? I'm ignorant about the professional bonsai scene but in reading about this situation I've realized it's not smart to discount dishonest tactics / manipulation where $ is concerned, I just re-read this thread and the post right above this one (@rockm's) is the perspective I cannot help but see this through now because I know two things for sure- there's ugly-but-uncorroborated charges that were levelled, and I know that Adam has been the friendliest & most-helpful person to me in the bonsai-community since I started out ~2yrs ago, I've met him in-person at my local club more than once and he is your standard 'good guy', the type that if they told an off-color joke it'd just be weird, not in-keeping with their general attitude.

Shortly after having found his temp-ban was still in effect (months after the ABS accusation), I noticed something I couldn't help but find, well, intriguing- on Reddit's bonsai 'side-bar', there's an "Artists & blogs" listing for the users to learn&see more and not only was Adam's blog removed, but Juan was placed at the very top of the list....I'd barely heard his name before the ABS letter, is he deserving of being at the top #1 spot on such a list? Graham Potter doesn't even make the cut! I wanted to see what Andrade had to offer the online-community but am just finding some youtubes, whereas Adam has over 7yrs of posts on his blog - honestly this just infuriates me, I know the value of Adam's blog because it's where I got my basic bonsai education, it sucks knowing that any newbies to reddit's bonsai board will not see his link there and be able to click to the wealth of information there, all because, what, someone says that someone else says that Juan was "pushed out" of FL? ABS, Mirai and Treehause were very quick to take the charge at face-value, which immediately gave it validity in the eyes of many who didn't seem too interested in getting answers to some basic things like how the hell you could be "run out" of a country because someone slandered you? Sorry but that just doesn't add-up...people are responding as-if he were physically assaulted/intimidated or something, there's something fascinating about how everyone just leaped at the opportunity to 'defend' Juan despite a lack of things adding-up in the charges.

I'm sorry to rant about this but since starting out Adam has just been the luckiest find for me, a guy with great experience who was/is always there to help newbies like myself understand things, and now he's banned from Reddit under shady circumstances, I mean there's 4 mods there and I'm not going to name names as they were private correspondences but the 2 I'd PM'd with both wanted him on the board and both doubted the veracity of the charges, yet here we are a month later and he's still banned + Juan was put to the top of the Artist's&Blogs list - I just cannot understand how the other two mods (one who doesn't even participate in the bonsai section of Reddit, his last post to the subreddit was when this drama went down!) are able to do this, I can only presume that they "hold the keys" as someone is ultimately in control of that sub-reddit and the two mods I'd spoken with via PM were clearly not on-board with Adam's treatment there.

---------

I share @billbayou's sentiment that the initial temp-ban was unwarranted - not only is it unfair not to let the accused speak in their defense (Treehause, a mod, leaves a damning open-letter until other mods took it down, yet Adam was already gagged on Reddit at that point, and still is) Further, the entirety of this accusation is of an off-line nature, the idea of an off-line accusation getting you banned online is just insane IMO (seriously, I mean if that's OK then wouldn't it be open-season for people just making unfalsifiable accusations against their competitors? If someone wants to say "My girlfriend told me [insert competitor here] groped her at that show, what a scumbag", that's enough that that person just gets banned? C'mon...)

And I also share his, and @Cadillactaste's, sentiments that this should end up in court as the court of public opinion has utterly failed and some serious reputational harms were done to Adam (and supposedly to Juan - though I haven't actually seen 1 acknowledgement from Juan himself that he's behind these charges, nor have I seen 1 specific charge- very, very fishy, that...)

I share @Anthony's sentiment that Juan's abilities would speak for themselves and that some talk being a reason to leave a country just doesn't make sense

I share @michaelj's contempt for this "Seth" character that asserted Adam called someone a nazi when, in fact, it was absolutely nothing of the sort (see Bill's screenshots for a sad-but-hilarious attempt by Seth to defend his claim that someone "was called a nazi")

I share @Dav4's concern/fear that this is a stunt being played at the expense of artists - I was initially condemning Juan for not speaking out to either corroborate / refute the ABS statements, *but* in reading about/pondering these types of shenanigans, I put myself in the shoes of a costa rican artist who wanted to break-into the US scene and found unwanted "help" from someone(s) at ABS (or wherever the first origination of the charges took place) and, well, I almost wonder if, were I wanting to refute the statement as false, how worried I'd be about the backlash from the biggest american bonsai org....I think many people, were they in a position where they found this occurring, would simply go along with it (it would benefit them, even if they hated the means the ends may've justified siding with liars)

I share the sentiment's echoed in @Vance Wood's & @rockm 's post that bonsai-business /= bonsai-artistry, and fully acknowledge the concept of people using underhanded tactics to help themselves/hurt their perceived competitors - if being as un-biased as possible it's simple to say that *either side* could be running a campaign against the other (figuring out who's being legitimate, however, becomes pretty simple upon examination here though IMO..) Further, I share Vance's frustration in the idea of people bringing accusations to light w/o bringing the whole story, what ABS did was unprofessional, if Juan was harassed out of a country (just sounds ridiculous even writing that...) then there should be an easy case for damages and ABS should've really helped Juan and gotten him legal help - instead there's vague charges that are all-but-impossible to refute (how does one prove the absence of an action? That's why it's on the accuser(s) to provide evidence, evidence that to this day hasn't been provided)

I share @Mikecheck123 's sentiment that, if being slandered, one doesn't pack up their family and move out of country - in googling Juan (was unfamiliar with him before this whole drama), I found an article where he boasts of his perseverence for 15yrs to get to become an apprentice in Japan, I'm sorry but that's simply not in-keeping with someone who, after coming to the US, finding hospitality with people like the Mirai group, would pack-up and leave the country over slander...which brings me to @Adair's posting

I'm sorry but this could easily be a reason he had to leave (expiring visa), I'd missed in the original drama that Juan only had a temp-visa....add that to a long list of potential reasons one could have for needing to abandon their idea of making bonsai a profitable career which is what it seems/seemed Juan wanted to do - there are many reasons that can fail but, for someone who's as dedicated as Juan describes himself, some slander doesn't seem a believable excuse for packing-up and leaving (hell, the charges change from Adam to Adam+others but it's always framed in a FL context, why on earth couldn't Juan have just continued to do bonsai-business elsewhere in the US? The more I read on this the less believable it becomes to think that Juan was **able** to maintain a profitable bonsai career in the US but had to forgo it because of some slander...





This is the first post of yours I've disagreed with (am saying this with genuine respect, am very thankful to you for all the great help you've given me since I signed up here, you're amongst the best posters on this board IMO), I'm thinking you just meant it as "let's stop the rampant speculation" and not "let's sweep this out of the internet-bonsai-community 'zeitgeist'", am all for it being done-away with once it's resolved but until then we know *someone* is lying about serious stuff and IMO we do a great disservice to just ignore it if the people matter to us (and IMO if you're into bonsai then both artists should matter, the 'society' and other groups should matter - it would realllly suck to find out that a large contingent of the "official" bonsai scene wasn't about objective talents but just laden with nepotism/favoritism w/o regard for the merit of one's artistry!) I agree with you that there wasn't a use for it when you posted that, as the thread had died-down at that point and had just become echoes of "no proof" and was becoming redundant, but glad it's still up so I was able to jump-start it here - **are people really OK with knowing Adam is banned from one of the major boards, a multi-topic board that helps bring people into our art-form/hobby?**

-------

So far as I have seen he's said nothing, I find the silence deafening - if I were being harassed-away from my life's dream, you'd better believe I'd be calling-out those responsible (unless, maybe, I had physical safety fears - surely nobody thinks that's a factor in Juan's silence though)

-------
I do apologize for the rant but after finding Adam was still banned, and then (upon PM'ing the mods to find out why) finding that half the mod team seemed gung-ho for him to be able to post + didn't buy the accusations, but then seeing a month go by and he's still banned, it truly just reeks of 'behind the scenes favoritism' to me, especially when they(them?) went and removed Adam from the Artist's list and put Juan at the #1 spot, it was seeing that that really made me think there were ulterior motives here but promotion of Juan aside the reality is this was a vague accusaiton, from a 3rd party, about off-line behavior, and someone is being barred from speaking somewhere they have for ages. Reddit is private, I cannot appeal to the freedom of speech (though appeals to its principle should be apparent in my stance here) because that message-board is private, but it's not private like BonsaiNut is private IE the mod(s) who are fighting against Adam's ability to talk-trees there *do not* have financial interest in the site, I can only imagine they've got veto power though because half the mod-team there was with me via PM yet nothing happened, and of the other half that I didn't speak to only 1 actually posts there the other I cannot even tell if they're into bonsai... Anyways I figured most wouldn't be aware that Adam's been banned this entire time so I wanted to share it, I didn't find out til recently enough and he's my go-to for any non-generic Q's I have with bougainvilleas, his banning pisses me off for so many reasons and I know that I'd want to be made aware of it if I hadn't known :/

Thanks for reading, am curious to hear what people think and eager to see both Adam and Juan continue to increase their skills and prominence, and to see the truth of this whole matter come to light & those lying be punished for it, this type of nonsense should have no bearing on our online 'tree talk' nor on the merits of one's trees/skills!!

SU2, I don’t read reddit, nor Adam’s blog. I don’t do tropicals, so I have no interest in reading his blog. I don’t know anything about his side of the story.

I do know Juan.

Juan was in the US on a temporary visa. I do know that he was trying to get a permanent visa, or at least an extension on the visa he had. I am not very familiar with the visa process, but I do know that it’s a difficult and complicated process. It’s relatively easy if there is an “employer” who will vouch for him, and there are provisions for “artists”, but I can only imagine that proving that a Costa Rican citizen is an exceptional artist in the Japanese Bonsai field, and can support himself financially, would have been difficult to prove to an Immigration Officer.

Now, had there been some people willing to petition Immigration on Juan’s behalf, who would vouch for his skills, artistry, and ability to support himself, he may have been able to get his visa extended. Or obtain a green card.

Juan has not told me the particulars of what happened. I was led to believe that he did not get the support he was expecting to convince Immigration to extend his visa.

Since he was unable to extend his visa, he had to return to Costa Rica. He then returned to Japan, back to Aichen-en and continued to enhance his skills.

He told me today that his future plans are to return to CR, and purchase a home there. And visit the US occasionally as a tourist.

So... it appears that while we may have lost him as a permanent artist, he will visit as a guest artist. I know that when he is in my area, I will make every effort to attend the function.

I hope this post can bring closure to this saga. The bonsai community is pretty small. It’s difficult for even the most talented artist to make a decent living strictly doing bonsai. We need to be supportive of all of our bonsai professionals.

 

[SU2]

I'm on the r/bonsai subreddit quite a bit, and after the first week or two after that open letter was posted, there wasn't much said on the subject anymore.

Agreed, after the open-letter the only subsequent news I found was the BSF members' mail campaign, over 600 people, not one of whom offered any corroboration of the alleged behavior. Also, the fact that Adam's "temp" ban, which is what it was called at the time, still stands (over 3mo later, a 'real' ban not a temp-ban), and that Juan was placed at the #1 on the Artists&Blogs directory while Adam was removed (while it's not 'new' I have to note the chasm of difference in help that one can find from Adam, compared to Juan, online)

From what I gathered though, the mods there are very close with one another on a personal level and I think some friendships may have ended or ended up on the rocks because of it. Pure speculation on my part, but as the bonsai subreddit is a bit more close knit than most subreddits, I think the mods are not ready to revisit that can of worms and likely just left it all as is to avoid further hard feelings.

Agreed again, but this is the problem. I've moderated before and have lost friends online before (IRL friends lost online), my contention is that in your view ^ here Adam is basically the sacrificial scapegoat, a guy who's been pushing bonsai through his free-to-read blog for the better part of a decade, is that justifiable? I've gathered exactly what you have, that feelings were hurt and friendships put in jeopardy, but sometimes that's par for the course- if you're a moderator and quietly scuttling Adam to appease people who want him permanently silenced from that site, well, that:

May not be the right thing,

No, it's not at all (full context:

May not be the right thing, but it makes sense that they may not want to touch that issue again with a 10 foot pole.

It "makes sense" isn't the appropriate lens here though, "makes sense" /= "the right thing to do", sometimes being a mod sucks and you have to do things that may be unpleasant but you do them because they're the right thing to do. I understand their aversion, I truly do, but it's no excuse here....reputations matter in bonsai, if Juan can demonstrate Adam hurt his then there's valid ways Juan could respond, but somehow everyone's OK with protecting Juan's reputation by attacking Adam's? Ban Adam, remove him from the Artists&Blogs list, add Juan to the list (at the #1 spot, on a list that even G.Potter didn't make), and you've done some good for Juan's reputation / damage to Adam's, all because of a 3rd party accusation that the accused denies and the accuser will not corroborate?

I hold a lot of respect for the mods on r/bonsai and they have helped me out on many occasions on my bonsai journey -

Why? I do not disrespect the mods, in fact I hold two of them in higher regards than many people I've met in the online-bonsai-world (one in particular, which is why the temp-turned-permanent bothers me so much more, I truly believed one was going to take a stand on this), but just "helping people out on their bonsai journeys" isn't enough for me to say "a lot of respect" and shouldn't be enough for for anyone, Adam's site has undoubtedly helped just as many on their journeys (hell it started my journey) and I give him respect for the efforts he's put into sharing all he's learned and I respect some of the mods (do you hold respect for the absentee mod that never posts?) for their help but more-so for how they had handled that board, it may be the only board I know with a good beginner's thread, they always kept things smooth there - this situation is the first complaint I have against them but this complaint is significant and no amount of bonsai-tips will make this right if Adam is being left-out by mods who don't even have much/any faith in the accusation....as many have said, this is an offline matter and should be handled as such, but what we have is Adam silenced and Juan promoted, that is meddling in a way that's not worthy of any respect IMO. I think this is the first instance I know of where someone's (alleged!) off-line behavior was used as grounds to ban them, and it's not like he drunk-drove his car through a crowd, all it took was a 3rd-party statement accusing something that's not even a crime? (this unconfirmed slander would be handled in civil court if anyone cared to handle it properly, yet the mods' final 'verdict' there is banishment for what amounts to a 3rd-party accusation of tort...that's not worthy of any respect IMO, and expediency/comfort isn't a factor in how it should be handled IMO)

- I think that if you feel strongly about the ban, you are well within your rights to try to pursue a conversation about it in the subreddit, it may be that others feel the way that you do and would support lifting the ban.

I do feel strongly, not sure if how much of it is my personal liking of his blog relative to my general anti-censorship viewpoint, I think I will try publicly discussing it there (would you think it's appropriate to make a thread, or would you put it in the beginner's thread? I feel like it'd be out-of-place in the beginner's thread, yet the reason I posted what I did here instead of making a new thread on /r/bonsai is that I expected(expect) it will be deleted, I guess I'll try it and see - I'm not comfortable just dismissing Adam over this flimsy accusation of wrong-doing)

I never read much of Adams blog because his environment is so much different from mine, but I've been checking out his stuff as of recent as I've upped my ficus collection, and that dude's tropical bonsai game is on point and his knowledge is worth sharing.

Glad you've found it, there's a ton of value in that site and yeah he's excellent with Ficus', a very common beginners' species I may add which just makes silencing him that much more offensive (I'm a staunch believer in the idea that the more people in the field, the better. We aren't reinventing the wheel when approaching the horticultural or artistic aspects of bonsai, we're standing on the shoulders of those before us and the more good people brought into the community, the better...conversely, the scuttling of an established personality, who's been helping *tons* of people for the better part of a decade, is just sad to see - and just plain frustrating to see when there's no good reason for it)

[edited-in: Do you personally support his banishment?]

 

[cheap_walmart_art]

Agreed, after the open-letter the only subsequent news I found was the BSF members' mail campaign, over 600 people, not one of whom offered any corroboration of the alleged behavior. Also, the fact that Adam's "temp" ban, which is what it was called at the time, still stands (over 3mo later, a 'real' ban not a temp-ban), and that Juan was placed at the #1 on the Artists&Blogs directory while Adam was removed (while it's not 'new' I have to note the chasm of difference in help that one can find from Adam, compared to Juan, online)

Honestly, I haven't looked at the Artist and blog directory on r/bonsai much - I can't speak for why they would arrange it how they do.

Agreed again, but this is the problem. I've moderated before and have lost friends online before (IRL friends lost online), my contention is that in your view ^ here Adam is basically the sacrificial scapegoat, a guy who's been pushing bonsai through his free-to-read blog for the better part of a decade, is that justifiable? I've gathered exactly what you have, that feelings were hurt and friendships put in jeopardy, but sometimes that's par for the course- if you're a moderator and quietly scuttling Adam to appease people who want him permanently silenced from that site, well, that:

I think you misunderstood my view - I meant to imply that it is human nature to want to leave an uncomfortable and inflammatory subject like that alone, especially with the flurry of posts that followed up that open letter (which, for the record, I think was a bad move to display unilaterally on the part of that mod).

It "makes sense" isn't the appropriate lens here though, "makes sense" /= "the right thing to do", sometimes being a mod sucks and you have to do things that may be unpleasant but you do them because they're the right thing to do. I understand their aversion, I truly do, but it's no excuse here....reputations matter in bonsai, if Juan can demonstrate Adam hurt his then there's valid ways Juan could respond, but somehow everyone's OK with protecting Juan's reputation by attacking Adam's? Ban Adam, remove him from the Artists&Blogs list, add Juan to the list (at the #1 spot, on a list that even G.Potter didn't make), and you've done some good for Juan's reputation / damage to Adam's, all because of a 3rd party accusation that the accused denies and the accuser will not corroborate?

I agree that it was not the right thing to do, or the right way to go about things. However, in my short time in the bonsai community, this is the most partisan event I have witnessed and I don't think anyone makes great decisions when a grey issue is treated as only black or white (it looked like most people were landing on the Juan side or Adam side of things). I do feel absolutely that Adam should not have been banned on hearsay alone, and he should have been afforded an opportunity to defend himself publicly if he desired.

Why? I do not disrespect the mods, in fact I hold two of them in higher regards than many people I've met in the online-bonsai-world (one in particular, which is why the temp-turned-permanent bothers me so much more, I truly believed one was going to take a stand on this), but just "helping people out on their bonsai journeys" isn't enough for me to say "a lot of respect" and shouldn't be enough for for anyone,

That is cool if it is not enough for you you to want to respect someone, but please don't discount my own experience and the people I choose to have respect or no respect for. That is not your decision to make for me.

Adam's site has undoubtedly helped just as many on their journeys (hell it started my journey) and I give him respect for the efforts he's put into sharing all he's learned and I respect some of the mods (do you hold respect for the absentee mod that never posts?) for their help but more-so for how they had handled that board, it may be the only board I know with a good beginner's thread, they always kept things smooth there - this situation is the first complaint I have against them but this complaint is significant and no amount of bonsai-tips will make this right if Adam is being left-out by mods who don't even have much/any faith in the accusation....as many have said, this is an offline matter and should be handled as such, but what we have is Adam silenced and Juan promoted, that is meddling in a way that's not worthy of any respect IMO. I think this is the first instance I know of where someone's (alleged!) off-line behavior was used as grounds to ban them, and it's not like he drunk-drove his car through a crowd, all it took was a 3rd-party statement accusing something that's not even a crime? (this unconfirmed slander would be handled in civil court if anyone cared to handle it properly, yet the mods' final 'verdict' there is banishment for what amounts to a 3rd-party accusation of tort...that's not worthy of any respect IMO, and expediency/comfort isn't a factor in how it should be handled IMO)

I guess if you need details, when I am speaking of the mods I am mainly thinking of Music Maker and Small Trunks. I haven't put much effort into researching any absentee mods, however it is a volunteer service and their choice if they want to post or not. The only other mod I knew was the one who posted the open letter, and that action I do not agree with at all. Out of the two I named, one was heavily involved on some exhaustive damage control for that incident and the other is located overseas and seems primarily only interested in discussing small trees and where applicable, advanced Excel technique. I have respect for both as people and will continue to do so, even if I don't agree with Adam's ban. When you are dealing with a PR nightmare like that, I don't think there is always going to be a right answer.

I do feel strongly, not sure if how much of it is my personal liking of his blog relative to my general anti-censorship viewpoint, I think I will try publicly discussing it there (would you think it's appropriate to make a thread, or would you put it in the beginner's thread? I feel like it'd be out-of-place in the beginner's thread, yet the reason I posted what I did here instead of making a new thread on /r/bonsai is that I expected(expect) it will be deleted, I guess I'll try it and see - I'm not comfortable just dismissing Adam over this flimsy accusation of wrong-doing)

I say if you feel this strongly about it, post it front and center and see how it goes. If its deleted without a good reason, then you will for sure know the viewpoint son the subject from that sub and that may be what makes the decision for you whether to participate there or not.

Glad you've found it, there's a ton of value in that site and yeah he's excellent with Ficus', a very common beginners' species I may add which just makes silencing him that much more offensive (I'm a staunch believer in the idea that the more people in the field, the better. We aren't reinventing the wheel when approaching the horticultural or artistic aspects of bonsai, we're standing on the shoulders of those before us and the more good people brought into the community, the better...conversely, the scuttling of an established personality, who's been helping *tons* of people for the better part of a decade, is just sad to see - and just plain frustrating to see when there's no good reason for it)

Its an excellent blog - if I have complaints its that I'd like to see more frequent updates. I enjoy the few videos hes put on youtube also. I like his guitar playing.

[edited-in: Do you personally support his banishment?]

I do not. I think you and I have similar views on censorship. I really was disappointed in a unilateral ban that did not allow the man an opportunity to defend himself. I guess though, as a regular Redditor, I was not shocked that things went down the way they did just because of the mob mentality of Reddit in general. I also am not surprised that nothing more has been said or done about it - as I stated previously I think its in human nature to hope things like this just blow over.

 

[Adair M]

SU2,

A couple of points: Juan did not name Adam with his statement of why he had to leave.

This forum is BonsaiNut. If you have a problem with another forum, complain there.

As for Juan providing help and advice, very few professionals give free advice. That is, after all, how they make their living. That said, they often do show their work and share the steps it took to get there. If you would like an example of Juan’s work, here is a typical example of the things he posts on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/685141798229107/permalink/1872480232828585/

 

[SU2]

SU2, I don’t read reddit, nor Adam’s blog. I don’t do tropicals, so I have no interest in reading his blog. I don’t know anything about his side of the story.

I do know Juan.

Juan was in the US on a temporary visa. I do know that he was trying to get a permanent visa, or at least an extension on the visa he had. I am not very familiar with the visa process, but I do know that it’s a difficult and complicated process. It’s relatively easy if there is an “employer” who will vouch for him, and there are provisions for “artists”, but I can only imagine that proving that a Costa Rican citizen is an exceptional artist in the Japanese Bonsai field, and can support himself financially, would have been difficult to prove to an Immigration Officer.

Now, had there been some people willing to petition Immigration on Juan’s behalf, who would vouch for his skills, artistry, and ability to support himself, he may have been able to get his visa extended. Or obtain a green card.

Juan has not told me the particulars of what happened. I was led to believe that he did not get the support he was expecting to convince Immigration to extend his visa.

Since he was unable to extend his visa, he had to return to Costa Rica. He then returned to Japan, back to Aichen-en and continued to enhance his skills.

He told me today that his future plans are to return to CR, and purchase a home there. And visit the US occasionally as a tourist.

So... it appears that while we may have lost him as a permanent artist, he will visit as a guest artist. I know that when he is in my area, I will make every effort to attend the function.

I hope this post can bring closure to this saga. The bonsai community is pretty small. It’s difficult for even the most talented artist to make a decent living strictly doing bonsai. We need to be supportive of all of our bonsai professionals.

Thanks for the informative reply, this actually makes things seem even clearer to me, I hope I don't come across wrong here but I'm guessing you don't care about whether or not Adam is banned there, despite making the (good!) claim that "We need to be supportive of all of our bonsai professionals" It would be awesome if bonsai were a bigger community and more could make a living in it, and the way there is to be supportive of people - that includes Adam though. He's legitimately proved he's about supporting this community (>7yrs of heavy blogging, for anyone to read for free) and he's being put-down so someone else can get a foot-up? It's hard to see his banishment, concurrent with putting Juan at the top of their Bonsai Artists&Blogs list (and removing Adam's site with a plethora of articles - this can only hurt the community)

I'll admit I'm quite thrown at your relationship with him- you speak with him routinely yet he never told you "Adam is why I left the US"? Isn't that the *entire premise* of this whole drama? It doesn't strike you at all as odd that Juan never mentioned anything about this to you, never spoke about Adam harassing him?

Am confused at his future plans, you say he's gone back to Japan to learn but then go on to say he's planning to go back to CR, is he staying in Japan for a while finishing his apprenticeship or visiting / getting a refresher? (am just curious on that point is all...despite this situation I still would like to see him, and any/every person with skill, get a chance to share their art with the world)

---------------------

Would it be fair for me to surmise that he came to the US expecting that he'd make enough $ via bonsai to support himself (and wife I think)? I often wonder at this, like when I see Graham Potter's media I get the impression he's making most/all of his living from bonsai...when I see @BillsBayou 's videos, I get the impression he has a career unrelated to bonsai. I guess that what I'm driving at here is that it sounds like he made a pretty risky move that didn't work-out, yet the public line from the ABS was:

Last weekend, to the shock and dismay of nearly all in the bonsai community, Juan Andrade announced via Facebook that he and his fiancée had returned to Costa Rica to live,
because they felt increasingly slandered by some referring to them as ‘Illegals” (they are not) and maliciously disparaging Juan’s talents. This apparently had been occurring for
over a year, and was causing them both to feel not only unwelcome here in the US, but also a personal loss of dignity at constantly having to answer such allegations.

, that IS NOT the same thing as him simply not being able to generate whatever level of success he needed (whether financially or for green-card points - our immigration system is fucked and cruel, fwiw, but that's the context we're forced to deal with) Sorry but he had the support of Bonsai Mirai and Bonsai Empire in back in '17, it's hard to swallow this line that he left because of malicious slander.... (interestingly, in re-reading their open-letter, they're just plainly lying when they say "announced via FB that he and his fiancee had returned to Costa Rica to live", the post - which was deleted by that point - did not say he was leaving, it was a vague "thank you"/"screw you" post about FL)

Failing to make it here because of the US's absurd immigration policies sucks, I don't deny that and I feel very bad for anyone wanting to come here that cannot (nobody chooses where they're born), but painting this as "Juan was run-out of the country by malicious, bigoted people" as ABS has done is not in-keeping with your description of his departure in your ^ post... It truly sucks that immigration wouldn't extend his visa, but that's /= him being run-out of the country as ABS has painted this - your post seems to imply that if only he'd had more support he'd have gotten an extension, but if the support of groups like Mirai and B.Empire aren't enough then what would have been? That's a fault of the immigration system, it sounds 100.0% in your post that, if there were no border issues, he'd have stayed, right? That's inherently different than ABS's proposition that malicious slander had them leaving, ABS couches their allegation with "Apparently" (yikes)

was causing them both to feel not only unwelcome here in the US, but also a personal loss of dignity

This is saying that it wasn't an issue of immigration-status, but of harassment....

I hope Juan and Adam continue their bonsai pursuits and that everyone in the community supports them, and that's why I bumped this thread - because some would like to see Juan boosted at the expense of Adam, to change the narrative here so that, instead of this being a typical case of shitty US-immigration rules + bonsai being a difficult niche to earn a living in, instead it was a malicious, bigoted harassment campaign that caused such psychological stress that he&his fiancee had to flee the country for their peace-of-mind...you speak with him and yet he's not told you any particulars? ABS's claim is that this was a year-long affair... nobody should be comfortable with seeing Adam banned over this unverified allegation of offline behavior, no more than they should be comfortable with our asinine immigration rules.

 

[SU2]

SU2,

A couple of points: Juan did not name Adam with his statement of why he had to leave.

Is there a statement of him leaving that I'm unaware of or is it just the one that was deleted upon ABS posting their inflammatory open-letter, this one:
?

Because that /= "I'm leaving the country due to malicious slander" which is what ABS was(/is?) pushing - I cannot help but wonder (and would be eager to hear anyone's answer on this) who initially singled-out Adam? Treehause's now-deleted open-letter was the first time I saw Adam indicted (and it was weird because the ABS letter mentions multiple individuals, yet Treehause goes on a rampage against Adam alone....), in any event it's a shame Juan couldn't stay as he wanted to - I genuinely wish he could have - but it's a travesty to try and paint this situation as one where he was run-out of the country by malice, instead of a one wherein he simply couldn't make things work (either financially or in the context of our outdated immigration system), and made all the worse by 'the mob' finding a single person to scapegoat for Juan's departure (which is what happened)

This forum is BonsaiNut. If you have a problem with another forum, complain there.

I legitimately don't believe my thread would be allowed to exist there, them moving Juan to the top of the Artists' list in-concert with banning Adam, along with them turning a temp-ban into a perma-ban, truly made me think I wouldn't be able to get a platform there (and while this is about a specific forum it's also about a known bonsai-personality, it should be just as fair game as ABS's open-letter in the OP of this thread, that wasn't about another bonsai forum it was explicitly about offline accusations, at least my grievance here is about the general "online bonsai community" while the OP is an accusation of offline behavior)

As for Juan providing help and advice, very few professionals give free advice. That is, after all, how they make their living. That said, they often do show their work and share the steps it took to get there. If you would like an example of Juan’s work, here is a typical example of the things he posts on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/685141798229107/permalink/1872480232828585/

Will check it out (seriously, not patronizing you and fear the lack of tone conveyed in text will give that impression :/ ), in any case though I disagree with looking at it like this, it's an art-form and if you can make a living from it that's great but as already acknowledged it's a tough niche to make a living in it, I've far more respect for someone like Adam who's part of the larger community than for someone who's putting $ ahead of the art-form. Adam sells stuff / makes $ but that's secondary to a love of bonsai, with how you phrase it it sounds like you're fine with people who want to make a buck off it as much as they want to actually promote the art... Pay-only access automatically means a smaller audience, a smaller audience means a smaller community and a smaller community doesn't make trees as well, truly as simple as that (ie we stand on the shoulders of those before us in this art-form, because of that I've far more respect for someone who's "paying it forward" than what you describe ie treating it as a career-path...if your hobby in art turns into a career that's great, but setting-out to make $ is the wrong foundation - IMO.)

 

[Adair M]

SU2,

I am friends with Juan. I was as shocked as everyone else with his post about having to leave the US. About 6 months prior to his departure, I had asked him of his future plans, and at the time he told me he wanted to work out of Florida. I teased him by saying he shouldn’t work there, you can’t grow JWP there! Lol!!! But he said he likes tropicals (he IS from Costa Rica, after all) and he would get to work on other types of material in his travels. He indicated that he was on a short term visa, and he was trying to get it either extended or made permanent. I didn’t press him on the matter. He also did not mention any slander issues. We primarily discussed bonsai.

After he returned to CR, I sent him an PM asking about what happened. Again, he did not want to mention any names, but merely said that “the Florida people” let him down, preventing him from being able to stay. You can read into that as you will.

About a month later, I learned that he had return to Aichen-en. He posted some updates to trees he had started when he had been there previously, and the trees were incredible. So, I sent him a message of support, telling him that the Lord had other plans for him, and he was fulfilling his destiny in Japan. Juan replied to me that he was happy to be in a place where he was appreciated. Again, read into that as you will.

So, Sunday, I sent Juan a picture of a tree I had purchased from him that I exhibited in a show. I also mentioned that there was a rumor that he will be back in the US at a future show. He messaged me back, and told me that he will be returning to CR, he will be looking for a permanent residence there, but will occasionally visit the US for workshops and conventions.

We keep in touch, and we have a lot of mutual friends, but we’re not “buddy buddy”.

I’m posting this because these are the facts as I know them.

As to what goes on at reddit, I have no idea. Nor do I have any idea as to what ABS does.

 

[rockm]

If you're concerned with supporting Adam, why not reach out and take one of his classes?That would be a far more positive action than bitching about not being able to get his free content.

Is there a statement of him leaving that I'm unaware of or is it just the one that was deleted upon ABS posting their inflammatory open-letter, this one:
View attachment 213522 ?

Because that /= "I'm leaving the country due to malicious slander" which is what ABS was(/is?) pushing - I cannot help but wonder (and would be eager to hear anyone's answer on this) who initially singled-out Adam? Treehause's now-deleted open-letter was the first time I saw Adam indicted (and it was weird because the ABS letter mentions multiple individuals, yet Treehause goes on a rampage against Adam alone....), in any event it's a shame Juan couldn't stay as he wanted to - I genuinely wish he could have - but it's a travesty to try and paint this situation as one where he was run-out of the country by malice, instead of a one wherein he simply couldn't make things work (either financially or in the context of our outdated immigration system), and made all the worse by 'the mob' finding a single person to scapegoat for Juan's departure (which is what happened)



I legitimately don't believe my thread would be allowed to exist there, them moving Juan to the top of the Artists' list in-concert with banning Adam, along with them turning a temp-ban into a perma-ban, truly made me think I wouldn't be able to get a platform there (and while this is about a specific forum it's also about a known bonsai-personality, it should be just as fair game as ABS's open-letter in the OP of this thread, that wasn't about another bonsai forum it was explicitly about offline accusations, at least my grievance here is about the general "online bonsai community" while the OP is an accusation of offline behavior)




Will check it out (seriously, not patronizing you and fear the lack of tone conveyed in text will give that impression :/ ), in any case though I disagree with looking at it like this, it's an art-form and if you can make a living from it that's great but as already acknowledged it's a tough niche to make a living in it, I've far more respect for someone like Adam who's part of the larger community than for someone who's putting $ ahead of the art-form. Adam sells stuff / makes $ but that's secondary to a love of bonsai, with how you phrase it it sounds like you're fine with people who want to make a buck off it as much as they want to actually promote the art... Pay-only access automatically means a smaller audience, a smaller audience means a smaller community and a smaller community doesn't make trees as well, truly as simple as that (ie we stand on the shoulders of those before us in this art-form, because of that I've far more respect for someone who's "paying it forward" than what you describe ie treating it as a career-path...if your hobby in art turns into a career that's great, but setting-out to make $ is the wrong foundation - IMO.)

You really think Adam is not in this to make a buck? Might be secondary, but I'd bet he doesn't want it to be...

I have no ax to grind with either one. Don't know either. Seems to me your beef is not here, but with Reddit and "Florida people"

 

[Mikecheck123]

Adam just posted the following message on instagram. Sounds like more than a hint of injustice.

adamaskwhy
3:00 am. Seems that, though I’m exhausted mentally and physically from the events and news of the last few days, I can’t sleep.
Vehicle problems, health issues and challenges, financial problems, disappointing news in bonsai, it’s hard to keep it together. Being an artist is not easy, especially in an extremely small, clannish medium.
Let me tell the world, 4 people are not representative of a community.
It’s hard to keep positive.
Here are some things I’ve decided.
I’m not showing trees in exhibits anymore. I don’t even want to go to shows.
I’m not going to be so trusting anymore. It was hard for me to make friends but now I find myself doubting everyone.
I’m still doing my blog and I’ll still be posting my trees on social media, and maybe one day I’ll publish the one post everyone wants to read. But not yet.
If you have a question, ask it. I still give advice if you want it, and for what it’s worth.
I’ll still travel wherever I’m wanted, and I’ll still tell bad jokes while I’m up there on stage. For the trees, for the people, for the challenges. For now.
As long as I have something to do, I’ll keep on doing it. But I’m tired.
So if you see me shaking my head and laughing at myself, you know why. Because if I don’t laugh, I cry.