VAFisher
Masterpiece
Thanks for the thoughts. Not ready to commit to something drastic at the moment, but we'll see how this one progresses in the next few years.
Thanks for the thoughts. Not ready to commit to something drastic at the moment, but we'll see how this one progresses in the next few years.
Waldo
Yamadori
I would certainly be interested in your suggestions , Please.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I hate to say it but; the modern media bonsai demonstration medicine show has convinced very many people that grafting a branch here and grafting a branch there is the be all and end all of every design problem with any thing grown as a bonsai when in fact it simply is not. In fact, I would wager that most people recommending this process have never grown a Mugo Pine short of killing it or have every grafted a branch onto a Mugo Pine, or any other conifer for that matter and had that graft/tree survive the procedure to become a viable branch worth working on.
GreatLakesBrad
Chumono
Mugo dilemma:
Nursery stock, will add pic tomorrow; purchased last season and took the 'prune 50% off' approach initially. Soon discovered Vance's instructions and realized should have been 30% reduction plus a repot per his guidance on new nursery mugos.
A year later, the tree has exploded and back budded in some great spots after last year's July pruning. I'm now at a crossroads: I have done branch reduction markings on the tree and would love to get another round of backbudding this year, but I fear I'll be in the same spot next season: not having knowledge of how the root system is doing. Percolation doesn't seem to be an issue in the nursery pot. I would take off 50% of the root ball if repotting this year. I'm worried it will lose some of its ability to backbud due to the repot.
I know that in general, I prefer to wait until it's necessary to repot versus on a schedule, but in this nursery stock's case, I feel that repotting is the best move here, with some limited reduction instead of the heavy foliage prune I'd want to induce backbudding.
Any thoughts? It has been a very hot summer here in 6a, but next few days are only in the 80's. The reason I'm thinking reducing less is to carry over more foliage for the repot shock, and I can prune back further next summer for backbudding at that time.
Nursery stock, will add pic tomorrow; purchased last season and took the 'prune 50% off' approach initially. Soon discovered Vance's instructions and realized should have been 30% reduction plus a repot per his guidance on new nursery mugos.
A year later, the tree has exploded and back budded in some great spots after last year's July pruning. I'm now at a crossroads: I have done branch reduction markings on the tree and would love to get another round of backbudding this year, but I fear I'll be in the same spot next season: not having knowledge of how the root system is doing. Percolation doesn't seem to be an issue in the nursery pot. I would take off 50% of the root ball if repotting this year. I'm worried it will lose some of its ability to backbud due to the repot.
I know that in general, I prefer to wait until it's necessary to repot versus on a schedule, but in this nursery stock's case, I feel that repotting is the best move here, with some limited reduction instead of the heavy foliage prune I'd want to induce backbudding.
Any thoughts? It has been a very hot summer here in 6a, but next few days are only in the 80's. The reason I'm thinking reducing less is to carry over more foliage for the repot shock, and I can prune back further next summer for backbudding at that time.
Waldo
Yamadori
I am having a similar experience. I have had to remove 60% of the root mass on some of my Mugos. It does not seem to have affected them at all. In fact several are back budding like crazy. I am doing my best to follow Vance's recommendations, and they all seem to be doing well. Also, Vance, in a previous post I was trying to identify one particular Mugo that had a different bark as well as some different growth patters of foliage. I came across a post where someone had a Mugo very much like this and referred to it as "Congesta" I don't know if that is an actual species or just something he referred to. Do you have a post on how to do a branch graft on a Mugo. I tried one recently on a JBP and it was unsuccessful . Appreciate any advice. I'm getting a lot of back budding, but not always where it will be useful. 
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I don't graft any of my Mugos, honestly I have not found myself in a position where I found it to be an issue of doing a graft or losing the tree. In reality there is always an alternative---always, you just have to look and imagine. By the way you have a pretty decent tree.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I don't think there is anything in a top that can't be put back over time.
The roots of a nursery pot tree are always on a faster clock to ruined.
Pot first.
Sorce
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
If you have access to Yamadori Mugos your opinion that roots of a nursery pot tree are always on a faster clock to ruinied.??? I am not sure what you are saying here, it is a fact that a 150 year old Yamadori is at far greater riskj than a twenty year old nursery tree from having the roots messewd with. Trouble is; if you don't live in Europe somewhere, the likelihood of you encountering one of these trees is small.
GreatLakesBrad
Chumono
Makes sense. So you’d advise holding off on repotting since the year+ since purchase from nursery doesn’t show any issues with the tree growing healthy in the nursery pot? I skipped your initial step of immediate repot with new nursery material and am worried that I’ll start making plans with branches only to have them die when I eventually do repot/take off 40-50% of root ball due to the structural connectivity you mention between root and branch.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
You live in Michigan?? I don't know of any other state that reffers to portions of itself as the mitten.
I think you are trying to over-think this thing. This time of year you can do either, or, or both, if you do not run amok on the tree. Take off 30% of both roots and branches and keep the tree in filtered shade for a couple of weeks. These young Mugos can take a lot of abuse and surprise the crap out of you.
GreatLakesBrad
Chumono
Many thanks Vance! Yes sir, Grand Rapids. Appreciate the expertise! Will update.
geekyalias
Seedling
Are you guys trimming candles or anything yet? I’m getting a nice round of buds forming, I saw on a forum elsewhere that trimming the first round of candles now will force a second flush, but I’m not sure. I feel like bud selection might be more profitable...
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Go back and re-read those threads, you will see that they are dealing with multi-flush pines such as Japanese Black and Red Pines and Pitch Pines, all the other Pines are single flush and will not give you a second flush of growth 99% of the time. These are single flush Pines of which Mugos and Scotts Pines are the most used in bonsai as well as the five needle Pines. This process is called Mikri in Japanese. It will produce and abundance of new buds even on old wood that will not grow till next spring. The new growth will have shorter needles and the internodes will be far shorter.
mpg101
Seedling
Hello Bonsai Nuts,
I'm new to this forum and I am relatively new to bonsai. I hope this is the right thread to post or I should start a new post (please let me know if I shouldn't do it here). I have a Japanese Maple, Trident Maple and a Chinese elm that I bought online over the last 10 years. I never really dedicated fully to the hobby. I'm entering semi retirement mode and I have more time on my hand. I have been reading the forum threads and stumbled into the Mugo Pine train. I really want to build my own bonsai from nursery materials and the mugo is a perfect choice for mainly 2 reasons. 1) Use this Mugo Pine journey to learn (pruning, repotting, candling, etc.) 2) Extensive resources and help here I can lean on. I'm ready to enter this Mugo journey.
I live in eastern Pennsylvania, zone 6b. Over the past few days, I went to my local big box stores (Home depot and Lowes). I found these 2 Pines (photos). The bigger one I bought it from Lowes (feels like a 2 to 2.5 inch trunk diameter) and the smaller one at Home Depot (~1.5 inch trunk). I got 2 to increase my chance of success. I read through this tutorial thread and focusing on the TREATMENT OF NEW NURSERY MUGOS section.
Here are my next steps for these guys:
1) Remove dead branches and debris (done)
2) Remove them from nursery pots and lightly clean out the top
3) Saw off 50% of the root ball, bottom half and remove 25% of circling roots if any
4) Remove 1/2 of the foliage. This is where I'm not sure what I can get rid of, I want to remove a lot of the lower branches and thin the upper part so light can shine through.
5) Prepare a soil mixture of 1 part akadama, 1 part pumice, 1 part pine bark, 1 part small lava rock. (I'm thinking of reusing some of the removed soil into the mixture)
6) I got a couple of water plant basket (10 x 10 square) as the new home for these trees.
7) Water them thoroughly; repeat when the first inch or so of the soil is dry (I'm planning to use a moisture meter)
8) Place them in shady area for 2 weeks.
What are the next steps?
Do I just let them be until next July 2021 before doing any pruning or wiring? I like to do some light wiring and pruning (maybe end of August) and leave them be.
Please chime in if I am missing anything.
Thank you.
I'm new to this forum and I am relatively new to bonsai. I hope this is the right thread to post or I should start a new post (please let me know if I shouldn't do it here). I have a Japanese Maple, Trident Maple and a Chinese elm that I bought online over the last 10 years. I never really dedicated fully to the hobby. I'm entering semi retirement mode and I have more time on my hand. I have been reading the forum threads and stumbled into the Mugo Pine train. I really want to build my own bonsai from nursery materials and the mugo is a perfect choice for mainly 2 reasons. 1) Use this Mugo Pine journey to learn (pruning, repotting, candling, etc.) 2) Extensive resources and help here I can lean on. I'm ready to enter this Mugo journey.
I live in eastern Pennsylvania, zone 6b. Over the past few days, I went to my local big box stores (Home depot and Lowes). I found these 2 Pines (photos). The bigger one I bought it from Lowes (feels like a 2 to 2.5 inch trunk diameter) and the smaller one at Home Depot (~1.5 inch trunk). I got 2 to increase my chance of success. I read through this tutorial thread and focusing on the TREATMENT OF NEW NURSERY MUGOS section.
Here are my next steps for these guys:
1) Remove dead branches and debris (done)
2) Remove them from nursery pots and lightly clean out the top
3) Saw off 50% of the root ball, bottom half and remove 25% of circling roots if any
4) Remove 1/2 of the foliage. This is where I'm not sure what I can get rid of, I want to remove a lot of the lower branches and thin the upper part so light can shine through.
5) Prepare a soil mixture of 1 part akadama, 1 part pumice, 1 part pine bark, 1 part small lava rock. (I'm thinking of reusing some of the removed soil into the mixture)
6) I got a couple of water plant basket (10 x 10 square) as the new home for these trees.
7) Water them thoroughly; repeat when the first inch or so of the soil is dry (I'm planning to use a moisture meter)
8) Place them in shady area for 2 weeks.
What are the next steps?
Do I just let them be until next July 2021 before doing any pruning or wiring? I like to do some light wiring and pruning (maybe end of August) and leave them be.
Please chime in if I am missing anything.
Thank you.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
It seems that you have a good idea of what should be done and how to go about it. I would suggest that you pull the trees from the nursery containers and remove the garbage/duff from the base of the tree down to the first surface roots. This will allow you to discover what the base of the tree really looks like. This is the part of the tree that is most difficult to deal with so you should know what it looks like.
Could you please inform us what part of the country you live in, this is very important whan seeking advise.
mpg101
Seedling
Hi Vance,
Thanks for the reply. I live in eastern Pennsylvania (zone 6b). I've done what you suggested. Today, I completed all the steps I laid out.
The big tree was in a 3.5 gal container, I have a hard time fitting into any container after I sawed off 50% of the root ball. I found the biggest colander I can find in the kitchen (wife approved, lol). I could barely fit it in there and with some new soil mixture. I hope this is not a problem. I removed 50% of the root ball and about 40% of the foliage. I'm not sure if the imbalance will be a problem (I want to prune more later once it has adjusted to the new environment). The smaller tree was much easier to work with. The soil mixture I used was 1 part akadama, 1 part lava rock, 1 part pine bark, 1 part pumice. It seems to drain really well when I water them after the repot.
I placed both of them under a tree where the morning sun shines through the leaves (partial shade). Per tutorial, they will be there for 2 weeks. My plan for the trees
1) Water them when the top inch or so of the soil is dried.
2) After 2 weeks, slowly introduce them to areas where they will get progressively more sun until they will be in a full sun spot
3) Wait until next early 2021 spring and prune. I want to prune all this year new growth, is it too risky or wait until spring?
4) Wait until July 2021 to do first wiring.
In the meantime, need to learn pruning strategies (eg. cut off all the branches and leave only 2 branches to prevent budges at the internodes)
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
You should be alright with what you have done. Put the trees in partial shade for the next couple of weeks and mist the foliage at least daily but don't water the soil till it starts to dry out.
geekyalias
Seedling
Like, fair enough, but it was a specifically mugo post, which is why I came here for clarification.
Unfortunately searching the term Mikri didn’t return any usable results pages. If it is referring to trimming the needles into bowties or whatever, I have done this in the past to reasonable effect. I am just confused as to the time frame to carry this out. If it’s something else, what does the process involve?
I don’t want to be asking the annoying questions, so I do apologise.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Where!? We gotta go rag em. A lot of people still don't know this difference, and many of them are Pros on other platforms.
The worst that could happen is your definition of a "second flush" will change to be just "new buds forming". That's the only difference.
Sorce
