Advice on what to do with this JPB

ianmcglocklin

Yamadori
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Found it at a random nursery while driving around at work, I like that it has a low branch off the trunk and it's maybe 11/2" thick at soil level. No movement on trunk and has that ugly swelling where the three top beanch come out. A trunk chop is clearly needed, but should I let it thicken up more first by repotting in a bigger container for a few years ( live in apartments so can't plant in ground) or make the chop this year and hope a new bud appears somewhere above that first branch to develope as new leader? Thanks for any advice in advance. Love you guys and always appreciate all the shared knowledge.
Oh also I live in the bay area of California so it's early in the growing season.
 

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Nice find. You have a bunch of options to use the low back budding for a smaller tree or you can go with a bigger design.
You have time to decide but in the meantime I think the following is a happy medium that allows you to take some action and open light for the lower growth to develop and to get some movement in the trunk and branches.

Remove low needles at the first junction (teal circle)
Cut center trunk off (red) or strip needles and keep it as a sacrifice by bending it sideways and up out of the way.
Wire remaining portions (yellow)
Dark green are future pads. I would also pull needles near the candles on the remaining branches to reduce vigor and open light to encourage backbudding in these branches.

Good luck!

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Do you recommend cutting back any of the other branches besides the middle main trunk? I definitely don't want to keep it as a sacrifice branch because it is already bulging too much at those three branches and causing inverse taper. I like your idea and appreciate your time.
 
In your picture are you recommending wiring down that thick left branch with all the candles on it? Or is that second yellow representing the little candle right by the junction?
 
Happy to help! Glad you like it. Yes, I would also cut the new leader and left side branches. You could do all of the cutting now or through June to give it time to back bud the remainder of the year. Fertilize heavy and the following year you should be able to cut the branches back more to the new growth that comes out.

To your second comment, I was recommending wiring the big branch down. You should not need the small shoot below that for the design. However, you could use the small shoot in place of the bigger branch in the future. If you are unsure, keep the small shoot for now and make sure it beefs up before making the big cut above it.

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Allow all foliage to grow and harden off for what it will add to lower trunk size. Then cut back to lowest woody branch to get movement in trunk ASAP as straightness is undesirable. Would suggest to decandle said low branch to get all branching possible down low on it. Put movement into this branch with what you want to keep of it. You may want to cut back to develop more taper in a couple years. As a different approach you may keep upper foliage for awhile to make basal trunk bigger bearing in mind the bigger it is before cut back the longer it will take for the branch to blend in after the cut is made.
 
Thank you for your suggestions back in April, I made the cuts like your suggestion and having been feeding it well, pushed lots of new growth and has little ones just forming at needs still, definitely pushed some back buds. I am pretty new to JPBs and am loving getting to learn and understand the reactions. Waiting a few more months for autumn to try and get some movement in the trunk and branching, just attached a guy wire to the left thick trunk after the chop above the whorl once it healed up a bit. I dont like the inverse taper going on between those two branches but maybe when I remove remained of old leader stub I can make it smoother and with the bend of the trunk. I've never tried to wire a trunk this thick and this straight but desperate to give it a go. When it's time to branch select and reduce second flush so I reduce to two candles even in branches I plan to further reduce? The trunk really bores me right now so I'm hoping I can make it more esthetically please to the eyes, and I keep thinking it may look better as a smaller tree for taper if I develope those lower shoots and eventually chop to first branch down the road, anyways just wanted to share how it's coming along.
 

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I feel like taking it all the way down will make a much better looking tree, may take a long time but I'm ok with that. Still will try to get movement in trunk and develope lower branching and let it thicken up some more while giving it some time
 
Potawatomi, is this your suggestioning to or did you mean chip down to the very first branch,?
Correction! Many possibilities exist starting with very low sprout and great trunk base. Keep lowest branch and backbuds below it. Since you already cut back trunk use biggest upper branch or both as sacrifices to increase trunk size. Wire or stake these to go upwards. Decandle lowest branch to help put strength into lower back buds. Fertilize well to help these grow. Back buds or lowest branch are your future trunk.
Personally would use a backbud to get lowest movement in trunk. When you move to other growing container determine planting angle from root crown and at same time remove as much of taproot as possible as long as keeping at least 50% of the roots. Use mostly pumice as substrate if available. When planting angle determined pick a backbud that will give you either your Cascade or more upright style and cultivate this one and if already woody remove the others. Keep the low branch for a while until chosen branch is strong enough for wiring. Once trunk is big enough for you remove the upper trunk and lowest branch. This will be a year or five down your road.😌
 
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I have akadama pumice lava rock and DE, and some Anderson flats on hand as well, but if I'm still thickening base or trunk aren't bigger pots and organic better? Or repot to get rid of that tap root and start building towards future nebari sooner? It seems like pretty decent draining potting soil with definitely some sand in it currently. I know pines don't tolerate bare rooting and some people suggest half the root ball one year and the other half next repot, it seems strange to plant it in one half organic and the other half not. Every day get home from work and check my trees and growing like you just suggested appears more and more obvious as the option to plan for. You said wire the sacrifices up, why not pulled down and out of the way of the lower buds and try to wire lowest branch up in case I choose that eventually as new leader?
Lol I was honestly a little embarrassed to post update pictures but why the heck not? i think I'll get there eventually

Oh and let sacrifices just go wild in the mean time with and not reduce any of their growth in the next few years?
 
Not organic for most pines unless growing for a nursery. It tends to holding water and not enough O2. Personally don't waste the money on crapadama. Pumice is cheaper and does not break down. You don't have to bare root nor should you wash off the roots. Shaking off loose soil or careful removal if very solid is OK and JBP are generally very hardy trees especially when young. Half bare root not necessary unless perhaps with older trees or when difficult soil removal is necessary and damaging to the roots. Sacrifices go upward to be out of the way and get their best growth as they naturally reach for the Sun. More sacrifice growth/more trunk growth. Normally sacrifices go wild UPWARD not sideways. Most side branches remove. Search Telperion Farms on this forum and see how they grew their sacrifices. 12 feet or more tall and great trunks in only 4 to 5 years. You need to stake these up of course as they'll fall over easily. Don't be embarrassed as you didn't make a bunch of stupid beginner mistakes before asking questions. You were the smart one.😁
 
Thank you for the advice man! Kind of wish I didn't chop off the old leader/main trunk and the rest of the candles now that I'm trying to maximize trunk thickness. I should be fine to repot this winter or right before spring after all the work I've done cutting it back this year right?
 
It’s alright you cut back the top. I would cut more and pick a single new sacrifice leader to let light in, for those buds at the bottom.

Lots of potential if you play it right. And, it isn’t a rush, though developing a strong sacrifice will boost strength and allow you to develop movement in a smaller powerful tree.
 
Well the thick one that has all the hardened branches from a previous whorl that also is covered in new candles would be the obvious choice if I were to just choose one and I have that one kind of pulled down and all the candles are growing up vertically from that point I know potawatomi said to have the sacrifice go straight up a lot of the times and videos or stuff I read about the sacrifice I see people pull them down to not block the light I haven't watched the video he recommended yet
 
Another thought just occurred to me and question, since I'm planning to just beef this thing up and and promote back budding on Lower shoots is there any reason to wire the trunk if I'm going to be cutting back hard at some point? I mean it is absolutely straight right now but all those shoots are occurring probably 2 in from the top of the soil and I don't know trying to put some movement on the trunk would have any benefits
 
And I think you are both saying the same thing about the sacrifice branch but just trying to clarify I know I normally see people keeping just one long candle and another candle to be the next sacrifice this sacrifice on my tree has I don't know like six branches or so coming from it that are all growing candles should they be reduced to just one branch and from that branch only select two candles to keep? I'm asking because more growth equals more trunk thickness as mentioned above but also will steal a lot of energy from what I actually want to develop.
 
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