Landscape Stock JPB Advice

[GarrettZ]

My local garden center has a few of these Japanese black pines available for about $70 (2 separate plants shown in pictures below). I’m new to JBPs, but from what I have seen this seems like a reasonable price. I am considering buying one, but I have some concerns.

As I said, I’m new to pines. These seem like a relatively old plants for the price, but they are a little leggy for bonsai. What is the likelihood that a landscape stock JBP like this could be transformed to a nice bonsai? How would you go about developing it? Do you think this is a good investment?

My thoughts are this: I imaging that I could produce an upright by chopping above the first set of branches, training a new leader, and waiting for back budding (or graft) for branches lower on the trunk. My concern is with the back budding part of that sequence…. Also, I feel bad wasting the whole top half of the plant! What are the odds I could successfully an air-layer the top for a second plant (2 JBPs of this maturity for $70 would be super)? Or can you see any way to develop this into a bonsai using more of the plant?

This newbie really appreciates any advice he can get!

 

[Paradox]

That particular one has a reverse taper in the trunk.
It also looks like its grafted which is going to cause all kinds of problems.

As to air layering it. I dont know if that can be done successfully with JBP, perhaps someone with more experience can answer that question.

 

[Jason_mazzy]

yes u can air layer it but I don't believe there is much potential there in the root stock. you are better off checking out George Muranaka's offerings on ebay

 

[Adair M]

Pass.

It appears to have reverse taper at what appears to be a graft union. You won't be able to fix that.

You would do better spending $100 or so with George Murinaka on eBay. His trees will have lower branches with some ramification started.

 

[nathanbs]

If I understand you correctly they are $35 each, correct? The price is pretty good in my opinion. I used to get them for $29.99 but they never restocked at that price. The two you pictured aren't that great but for $70 a whole lot of fun can be had. When they are that approximate age based on the photos maybe 5-6 years old, they will back bud like crazy when trunk chopped. Leave a significant branch as a sap line and chop off the rest above. You can airlayer the 1-year old candles fairly successfully. You can read about it in George Muranakas blog. I think as far as making decent bonsai out of them your best bet is the chop whether or not you experiment with air-layering will only delay the inevitable chop. I would not repot until 1-year after the chop

 

[nathanbs]

here are 2 trees that started with nursery stock very similar to yours. One thing to point out is that you can buy 1 year old seedlings for about $1 so you are paying another $29 for being impatient

 

[nathanbs]

Pass.

It appears to have reverse taper at what appears to be a graft union. You won't be able to fix that.

You would do better spending $100 or so with George Murinaka on eBay. His trees will have lower branches with some ramification started.

I highly doubt that its a graft union. I agree it looks similar to one but doubt it

 

[bonsaibp]

If I understand you correctly they are $35 each, correct? The price is pretty good in my opinion. I used to get them for $29.99 but they never restocked at that price. The two you pictured aren't that great but for $70 a whole lot of fun can be had. When they are that approximate age based on the photos maybe 5-6 years old, they will back bud like crazy when trunk chopped. Leave a significant branch as a sap line and chop off the rest above. You can airlayer the 1-year old candles fairly successfully. You can read about it in George Muranakas blog. I think as far as making decent bonsai out of them your best bet is the chop whether or not you experiment with air-layering will only delay the inevitable chop. I would not repot until 1-year after the chop

Why would you not repot for a year? Choping will remove most of the foliage that is feeding the roots, If you remove most of the top the reduced foliage probably won't supply enough energy to the roots for them to supply the energy needed for backbudding. I would always reduce the roots if I'm reducing the top that much.

 

[nathanbs]

Why would you not repot for a year? Choping will remove most of the foliage that is feeding the roots, If you remove most of the top the reduced foliage probably won't supply enough energy to the roots for them to supply the energy needed for backbudding. I would always reduce the roots if I'm reducing the top that much.

It's been my experience that every time I do a major chop on one of these nursery pines I lose it if I am too impatient with repotting it. Additionally I think the abundance of root mass helps the tree explode with new growth. I have yet to experience the opposite.

 

[Adair M]

Regardless of whether that reverse taper bulge is a graft or not, I'd still pass. It will take a couple of years to develop ramification to where it looks anything like a bonsai tree... And then, what do you have? Reverse taper! A major flaw!

At least find one that doesn't have reverse taper/unsightly bulging on the trunk.

90 percent of bonsai is the nebari and the lower trunk between the nebari and first branch. Ideally, there should be taper between the nebari and first branch. Admittedly, hard to find. But, look for that. The rest of the tree, you can grow.

 

[nathanbs]

That reverse taper will grow out of it once you chop and grow out your sacrifices. If all goes well you will get buds beneath that point after the chop as well. There's no argument that there's not better stock out there but there's a lot to be learned with stock like this

 

[GarrettZ]

Alright, you guys have convinced me to pass on these. Thanks for the advice! I'll look at George's ebay stock instead. Any other good internet dealers that sell JBPs at reasonable prices?

 

[nathanbs]

Alright, you guys have convinced me to pass on these. Thanks for the advice! I'll look at George's ebay stock instead. Any other good internet dealers that sell JBPs at reasonable prices?

I feel like i'm the one trying to sell you these pines For what its worth I have bought many pines from George Muranaka and what you are getting for the additional $60 approx. difference between the nursery pine you showed us and his average field grown pine is a couple extra years down that path of a finished tree as I mentioned earlier. I think a $35.00 nursery pine is a good compromise between $1 seedling and $85 + shipping field pine. When I buy Georges trees for $65 (still in the ground, dig it yourself price) I still chop it and throw it into the ground to further its development. The only reason why I do it is so I can have some trees further along than my 120 seedlings that are now 4 years old.

If you are not interested in having to throw your trees into the ground or into grow containers than I think $1 seedlings, $35 nursery stock, and $100 muranaka pines are not for you. Better wait until you find something that has all the branching and then some and all you have to do it reduce branches, style and learn how to manage needles.

If you are inexperienced with pines I would again recommend you start with something substantial but relatively inexpensive as well = $35 nursery pine and when you can keep it alive and well than buy the above mentioned tree with everything you need just need to reduce.